ASHI Inspector screws up another inspection.

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1

Originally Posted By: gromicko
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ASHI Inspector screws up another inspection. Clients have to sleep in a tent pitched on their driveway.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/orl-locstermite18101803oct18,0,655513.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

Reminder to home buyers again: www.nachi.org/avoidashi.htm

Nick

PS I can probably help this inspector with this one.

2

Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!

–
Igor


Top To Bottom Inspections


Glen Spey, NY

3

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Igor:


If you recall, USInspect sent someone up from their VA headquarters to meet me at the NY NACHI Chapter meeting a few months ago. I tried to hammer out a deal to get all 180 of their inspectors to join NACHI. ASHI National killed the deal for both sides.

You can lead a horse to water...

Just as well I guess.

Nick

4

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Nick,


I used to compete against US Inspect in VA. and as a matter of fact, one of their inspectors inspected a house I purchased in 1994, and his mistakes led me into the inspection business. He was a full member of that other ![icon_evil.gif](upload://1gvq2wV2azLs27xp71nuhZOKiSI.gif) organization at that time. If the horse drinks in the future, will they raise our E&O rates you are trying to get?

BTW, did I just not read in the article how the homeowner found out about the problem if the inspector and termite dude missed all of those things? Did a wall fall on her?

Blaine

5

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Let’s not be too quick to blame the inspector, no matter how many years of experience he has or doesnt have. The truth is, here in NY you can work for a pesticide applicator, have taken the course and exam to become a licensed pesticide tech, and perform termite inspections also. In that case, the applicator or technician, in many instances, could very well be deemed the “expert” witness in a court case against an HI simply because they specialize in the termite business, regardless of the fact that they have NO construction or HI background at all. Here in NY, our own Barry Stangel consults for the State’s DEC. Does any of us think we’d have a snowballs chance in hell of rebutting him in court regarding an inspection. Yet, he has NO construction or HI background. Now, in the state of Florida, where this particular inspection took place, the state deemed this inspector an expert in his field by giving him a license to conduct WDI inspections.


Its easy for any Monday morning quarterback to say that someone else would have or should have seen evidence of something. Truth is, none of us can say for sure what was visible and what was not. As our inspections are non-invasive, can any of us state with any degree of certainty that we couldnt find ourselves in a similar position someday?

I recently was called back to an older home, where small portions of the hardwood floor appear to have been eaten away. I went back, and examined this section of the floor in the living room. Sure enough, it looked as if something has eaten small strip sections of the hardwood, where each piece meets, and along the top. Not a lot of damage. This affected about a 3 or 4 foot area, and was not extensive. But, what other problems lurked? The basement directly beneath this area was finished space. There was an area rug installed in the room, covering the damage, with furniture on top, at the time of the inspection. Was the damage there? Sure. How was I to find it? Was I expected to move the furniture and roll up the carpet? Of course not.

So, back to the Florida incident. With that degree of damage, I find it hard to believe that the Seller never saw or heard anything. For that type of damage to have occurred, those critters were there a long long time.

I also find it interesting that with all the "exterior" defects one engineer claimed were present, that nothing had manifested itself on the inside. With major support timbers allegedly eaten away, that there was no evidence of movement or cracking of sheetrock, each time the front door was slammed shut, is most interesting.

I agree that ASHI branding artificially raises the expectations of prospective clients as to an inspectors competence, which will cause some problems for those inspectors in the future, but lets not forget that this WAS an inspector with some experience and a license to perform WDI inspections. He was no neophite. So how could he have missed this? I have no clue, but it could happen to any of us...

It easy for an engineer who has just removed a large area of sheetrock or exterior siding to find damage and state that someone else should have or could have found it. Put in the nspectors shoes, with no invasive techniques available to him, would he say the same thing?

Maybe the inspector was competent, or maybe he was paid off or a complete idiot. We'll never know. Let's take the media spotlight away from the situation for a moment, and look at whatever non-subjective facts we know.

I'd like to actually use this forum to discuss how any of us would have found this extensive damage, and what techniques we use on a WDI inspection. Let's discuss and learn from each other...

--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

6

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
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Deleted… icon_biggrin.gif

–
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)


?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
7

Originally Posted By: rstephens
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I have been a termite inspector for the last 9 years and it is possible to miss active termites. I checked a house that had numerous Re-treatment over the last couple years from a competing company. Visibly in the area where the termites were active there was absolutely no sign of damage then you remove the sheet rock and that section of the wall was virtually destroyed. So it is possible to to miss termite activity. Now that said I do not believe a well trained Inspector would miss that much damage if there was indeed that much activity you could find it on a termite inspection.


Note here is a picture of the wall I was talking about:






If the picture does not show up click link below:

http://webpages.charter.net/reptilenut/termitedamage.JPG
Here is another one.
http://webpages.charter.net/reptilenut/Swarmcastle.JPG

8

Originally Posted By: gbell
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The local media has really jumped on this situation. It has had overage all over the local news channels. I have not been to the house but have seen pictures on the T V. There was a lot of visible damage in the attic that the crew shot for the news. I do not know how he missed it if he went in the attic.


At a previous inspection I had a similar house. When I drove up to the house I could see that the stucco had been cut recently(not yet painted) and a lot of the wood on the exterior had been replaced. That was the first sign of a possible problem. The first room I entered had walls with wood siding and a wood floor. As I went into the rooms that had sheetrock I could see exit holes and tunnels where the termites had eaten.
This evidence told me that I would find a lot of wood damage and too look very hard at the structure. As I went through the rest of the house I found a lot of damage. The house had a very large attic so I was able to get to most of the exterior walls to inspect the top plate. I could stick my finger through the top plate on about 70% of the exterior walls.

I came out of the attic so that I could share the news. I have done work for this real estate company for several years. I told the buyer and their agent that you might as well take a bulldozer and tear it down. the home has major termite damage. Much to my surprise the agent took it very well. On this house the same office had the listing and represented the buyer. By the way the seller was not present. Automatically I thought that this will be the last house I do for them. The agent called the broker and she immediately came to the house. I showed her the photos and explained what I had found. She turned to the buyer and said "we will find you another house this one is not for you". She called the owner and told her that she would have to drop the listing because of all the damage found.
I am still on the short list for this office.

When you inspect a wood frame home it is wise to take extra time and really look for the signs of possible damage. I also like to apply pressure to the exterior walls to see if there is any movement. This is another sign that you may have damage.

--
Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service

9

Originally Posted By: rstephens
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Applying pressure to the outside walls and inside is good practice you would be surprise how many times my hand has went through a wall doing this (Due to termite damage behind it). Extremely good practice in finished basements.

10

Originally Posted By: D. Michael Green
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Removed by author.

–
Michael Green


InspectorUSA


SWAT Termite & Pest Control


Lexington/Louisville/Ashland/Morehead KY

11

Originally Posted By: DShelton
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I’m still curious as to why the structural engineer was called in after the closing and a few days into the move? or was this a report that was to be filed prior to the closing and someone didn’t want that to happen. In Texas they require a termite inspection prior to closing that is fairly extensive, Termites love the south, but even in the north, my inspector found a small amount of termite damage and even though it appeared to old damage, had to replace the floor beams that were over a dirt crawl space. And believe me when I tell you he had to crawl in there far to find it. The seller pumped in 150 gallons of termite and pesticide insectant and we smelled it for months. But, there wasn’t a living thing left after that! My inspector, was Larry Ott, the National Trainer for HUD 203k.


I'm not sure I would beat the inspector too hard because it could (gasp) be one of you guys that make a mistake, and mistakes are made-no one is perfect- from time to time. Granted this was definitely a big one, but as they say, those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but rather learn from other's mistakes and hope it doesn't happen to you.

Debby

12

Originally Posted By: dgreen1
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Removed by the author

–
Michael Green


1-877-INSPECT/InspectorUSA


Kaesar & Blair Advertising Specialties Dealer

13

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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ASHI files one consecutive legal attack (all unsuccessful) after another against NACHI in an attempt to slow us down . I can’t help but take a little cheap shot at them when I can. icon_wink.gif


Nick

14

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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GO GET EM’ NICK

–
David Valley


MAB Member


Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."
15

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I extended my stay in Florida a couple days after http://www.nachi.org/centralfloridachapter.htm to see how I could help these poor folks. I initially offered to pay for her motel so her family could move out of her tent. Sharon Clemons (the home buyer) and I had a nice conversation. She will be moving into an apartment in the morning. The apartment is cheaper than a motel. The Clemonses are down to their last dollar. Can we contribute anything to this family from our NACHI foundation? In any case, she and I will be meeting tomorrow and I’ll get an address if anyone would like to send them a couple bucks. Perhaps ASHI can match.


Nick

PS A local REALTOR is helping out too. He took several hundred digital photos. I might be able to get them and post here.

16

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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Pure Genius. Excellent cause to donate to. Where do I send the check?

–
Inspection Nirvana!


We're NACHI. Get over it.
17

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
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Nick,


This is an ideal place for the NACHI Foundation to flex its muscles and do some good without the expectation of any return, an opportunity to test our commitment to community and see what we are made of.

A check will go out to the foundation in the morning, I trust the judgment of those in charge to distribute the money as they see fit and am thankful that I can help in any way.

Joe Burkeson

--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)

?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

18

Originally Posted By: jrooff
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Nick;


Make sure you post it loud and clear. Maybe a NACHI diaster relief account for ASHI professionals?



For real though, let me know were to send the check!

19

Originally Posted By: psabados
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Nick


In your opinion, would you rather we send our check to the foundation or directly to Sharon Clemons. One large check from the Organization or the whole lot of small ones from around the country showing her our support?

You inspectors in Fla. keep us posted if you can and share any links on this one.

Paul

20

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I think we should just send what we each can to the NACHI Foundation. Member Gary Johnson will handle it for all of us.


Nick

PS. I love the "Disaster relief for victims of the ASHI Experience" special fund idea. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)