Well Water Flow Rate

Originally Posted By: jspringstead
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Marcel: How do you figure testing a wells production being a “specialty”


that a HI should not attempt to determine? You can either hook up a flow gage or use a five gallon bucket ( or what ever ) and run the guts out the


well for an hour or two while your inspecting the home. If its rate doesn’t drop drastically ( or quit ) you can let your client know the well produced X amount of GPM for the test period. Either adequate or not for the size home their buying. I always let them know that the GPM at the test site is partially determined by the size of supply line. Hence, 5 1/2 ± from a 1/2" line is fine, as long as lasts through the test period. I don’t see where I need a “well man” to determine that. I performed several hundred well tests and don’t feel I’ve done my clients a disservice in any way. icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: mcyr
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I know how to check the fluids and do minor repairs to my vehicle, but that does not mean I am a Mechanic.


Marcel


Originally Posted By: rcooke
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jspringstead wrote:
Marcel: How do you figure testing a wells production being a "specialty"
that a HI should not attempt to determine? You can either hook up a flow gage or use a five gallon bucket ( or what ever ) and run the guts out the
well for an hour or two while your inspecting the home. If its rate doesn't drop drastically ( or quit ) you can let your client know the well produced X amount of GPM for the test period. Either adequate or not for the size home their buying. I always let them know that the GPM at the test site is partially determined by the size of supply line. Hence, 5 1/2 +- from a 1/2" line is fine, as long as lasts through the test period. I don't see where I need a "well man" to determine that. I performed several hundred well tests and don't feel I've done my clients a disservice in any way. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Can you now stand up in Court and say how many gallons the well had a start of your test.
How many gallons the well had at end of test How big is the reserve in the well .
What are the chances the well will have of producing enough water in a dry spell .
When was was the last dry period .
How have other wells doing in the area .
What % of wells suffered with reduced flow during the last dry period.
I am confident in what I can do but I leave well testing to those who do well testing all the time .
I get nervous just thinking about being in court when the judge says Mr Cooke what makes you think you are an expert in this field.
Mr Cooke can you explain to me what a trickle system is and how is the best way to handle it .
Out for an inspection .
Not doing the well or the septic.


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



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Thank you Roy; Ditto, Ditto, I could not have said it any better.

Thank you for making up my handicap language barrier.

That is exactly what I meant.



Marcel.


Originally Posted By: jspringstead
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Roy: In answer to your question, can I stand up in court and say how much the well produced at the start of the inspection and at the end, yes I can. Exactly what my gage ( or bucket ) read. Do I know about neighbors or area wells? Of course not! My job is to inspect the house and major components on the day of the inspection. Well, septic, radon or home. Can I tell them how long any of these components will continue to operate efficiently? No. Of course not. But at the time of my inspection, they were either working and producing properly, or not. I am blessed to be in an area ( Great Lakes region ) with a very amply supply of fresh ground water. That does not guarantee that every well can produce an adequate supply. My job is to determine at the time of the inspection,


( providing I’m doing a well inspection ) that the well “is” producing a amply supply of safe water. I don’t feel it’s “brain surgery” type knowledge, just something you gain confidence in your opinion of after many years of experience. My bottom line to any inspector is, inspect what your comfortable with inspecting, if your not, don’t. icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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John: How do you calculate all the variables threwout the house concerning water flow. what i mean is, if you calculate g.p.m with a guage or a bucket at an outside spigot you could get 10gpm. but at the kit faucet you get 7gpm because of the sizing of internals in faucet. or the shower could have a 1.6gpm “water saver” shower head and you get 2gpm. but if the internal pluming is all 1/2’’ but the main is 3/4’’ is there a difference in your report to the actual g.p.m at the main, or is it the “working” g.p.m. at each fixture. I too have been asked to test and document the flow of the house, the best i could tell them is that there are too many variable to accuratly determine presice g.p.m.s, but at the time of the inspection the working pressure at each fixture seemed adiquate for it’s intended purpose. icon_cool.gif I’m not trying to rail road you John, dust mearly inquiring as to how to approach such a situation.


Originally Posted By: rcooke
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jspringstead wrote:
Roy: In answer to your question, can I stand up in court and say how much the well produced at the start of the inspection and at the end, yes I can. Exactly what my gage ( or bucket ) read. Do I know about neighbors or area wells? Of course not! My job is to inspect the house and major components on the day of the inspection. Well, septic, radon or home. Can I tell them how long any of these components will continue to operate efficiently? No. Of course not. But at the time of my inspection, they were either working and producing properly, or not. I am blessed to be in an area ( Great Lakes region ) with a very amply supply of fresh ground water. That does not guarantee that every well can produce an adequate supply. My job is to determine at the time of the inspection,
( providing I'm doing a well inspection ) that the well "is" producing a amply supply of safe water. I don't feel it's "brain surgery" type knowledge, just something you gain confidence in your opinion of after many years of experience. My bottom line to any inspector is, inspect what your comfortable with inspecting, if your not, don't. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


John how does you bucket tell you how much water was in the well at the start and finish .
Do you measure the depth of the well .
Do you measure the width of the well.
Do you measure the water depth before and after the test .
How long did it take to go down .
How long did it taket to fill up again .
How far is the pick up of the botttom of the well.
What pressure is required to lift water from a 150 ft well.
Tell me again John how can I get enough water out of a trickle system..
Explain again what the flow is from the trickle well.
Tell me how much water is in a thirty inch well 8 feet on water.
How much does a galon of water weigh.
How many gallons per cubic foot.
I ask again have any wells dried up in this area in the last year.
In court you had better be able to explain and answer these questions .
What are the answers John , this is open book now will not be when in court.
I do know the answers from my head and I do not do well tests.
I look forward to how you would answer the lawyer.
Sorry John I will stick to what I am good at and leave the well test to the guy who is good at wells.


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: jspringstead
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Jay: I really don’t concern myself with the actual gpm on the inside of the home. I only note adequate ( or inadequate ) flows when using multi fixtures such as a shower going, then flush the toilet and turn the sink on.


Obviously size of supply lines will have a huge affect on overall water supply. Normally, the older the home, the smaller the pipes or more plugged they may be. Hope this helps.! icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: mcyr
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icon_smile.gif John;


There are test sheets outlined out there that well contractors use that are exactly like Roy is describing, if that is not what you do, hang it up or someone will for you.


Sorry, but you obviously are not an expert on well water flow testing and should not be inspecting it.
You are asking for a lawsuit and the courts today would make you look like a buffoon.
Stick to what you know, and don't make believe you know. Payback is a bitch.

Marcel


Originally Posted By: jspringstead
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Roy, in answer to your first several questions, I do not determine what size reservoir may be present, and usually not the depth although I sometimes am supplied with a copy of our State well log. Nor do I determine static water level before and after. I feel by running the well for 1+ hours monitoring the gpm, and it does not continually drop off, and I’ve produced 300-500 gallons, then this well should most likely produce an adequate supply of potable water. As I mention before, we are blessed with a great water supply here in Northern Michigan. I have spent a little time in Canada and know gaining such supply is not always so easy.


In answer to you later questions, yes I know the weight of water, static pressure per ft. and how to calculate volumes. Do I use any of these in my well test? No. Do I let my clients know that one possible solution to a well running dry is lowering the pump “deeper” into the static well level. Yes, but at this point I would highly recommend contacting the original well driller, obtaining the well log and looking for solutions to the issue. This happens several times a year with me, and I have yet to been called into court for any reason. What I know for sure is this, my clients are very happy to pay my fee’s to determine they have a safe and adequate supply of water. Never had anyone complain yet and I produce another


$ 100± for my time I’m there. Again, if you don’t feel confident in suppling a service, then I wouldn’t either. I’m very confident in my abilities. icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: jspringstead
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Marcel: having the right to agree to disagree is a great part of this Webb site. Read my reply to Roy if you want. icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: rcooke
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Things are different here in Canada. Roy Cooke sr



Roy Cooke Sr.


http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: jspringstead
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That’s for sure Roy icon_exclaim.gif Again, I think you have to be very comfortable in offering your services to the public, and like any business, give them what they expect or more and your business will grow and prosper. Best of luck!


Originally Posted By: mcyr
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You keep saying safe and adequate water supply, dose this mean you tested the water also and is safe to drink with no drawbacks, or possibility of contamination?

Marcel


Originally Posted By: jspringstead
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Yes I test the water on the day of the inspection, and if it comes back with a clean bill of health, its safe as of the day of the inspection. Future contamination possible? Always. But on the day of the inspection, it was fine. If you’d like, I’ll email you one of our State Certified Lab test results. icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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jspringstead wrote:
Jay: I really don't concern myself with the actual gpm on the inside of the home. I only note adequate ( or inadequate ) flows when using multi fixtures such as a shower going, then flush the toilet and turn the sink on.
Obviously size of supply lines will have a huge affect on overall water supply. Normally, the older the home, the smaller the pipes or more plugged they may be. Hope this helps.! ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


thanx that did help. alot. so how could one justify the money for a gpm guage or all the time spent counting buckets full of water if all you need to do is the standard "multi fixture'' test. that's mostly knowlage and common sence. right? should i have a gpm meter or a bucket.???


Originally Posted By: Brien Stratton
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Hello, folks icon_lol.gif , can I get some advice on a house I am thinking of buying?:


I did the "bucket" system by putting a 5 gallon bucket under the bathtub tap. I turned on the tap full. At the beginning it was coming out at about 7.5 gallons a minute. Then at 15 minutes, same reading, 30 minutes same reading, then at 45 minutes the water slowed to a trickle and stopped at one point. I then shut off the tap.

After awhile the pressure built up again to run fairly well.

My question is, if I had turned down the flow in the bucket to a 3.5 gallon to 5 gallon a minute rate at the beginning of the test, would the flow rate likely have stayed the same thoughtout the 1 hour test period? My thinking is that because the water was coming out so fast and for 45 minutes that it ran dry prematurely. It does seem to have good water pressure, more than I have normally seen in country houses with wells.

Comments anyone? Thanks for any advice. Get a professional well tester?


Originally Posted By: mcyr
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I read it and still agree with Roy.
He is accurate in facts, and he is accurate in principals of the standards of practice put out by NACHI.

2+2+4 not 5.

Marcel


Originally Posted By: Brien Stratton
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I just stumbled onto this forum, and thought I would make a post and share in the discussion. I notice that my post had a warning attached to it: this poster is not a member of Nachi. Well big deal! Why alllow people who are not house inspectors to post if they will be just ignored anyways.


Oh I get it, I will have to pay for a house inspector to check my well pressure for the house I may buy. I will go and do that right this moment. Thanks for the discipline. I guess I have my answer already from your silence. Thanks for your silence home inspectors, do you talk to your customers or just look blankly in their faces when asked a question. HeHe.


Originally Posted By: Steven Brewster
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Brien,


I don't know much about wells, flow tests, drawdown and recovery testing but found this article that may be of interest. Hope it helps.




http://www.drilleronline.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,3643,158451,00.html[url][/url]