[b]Service Amps[/b]

Originally Posted By: dglass
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Are inspectors required to remove the mainel panel cover to see all the circuit wires for every inspection, you know to check for double lugging.


If not, how do you accurately determine the Service Amps.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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to remove covers, however, IMHO it is an important part of the inspection.


Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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I agree Jeff…however in most organizations we are required to report the amps and state or condition of the wiring within the service panel and much instruction goes into teaching HI’s how to safely observe these situations…so basically the service panel YES…other enclosures you are not technically required…ie: juntion boxes and such.



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Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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I can’t imagine NOT removing the panel cover unless it is inaccessible, or if an adverse situation exists.


Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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My last 2 inspections the realtor told me that i was the first inspector she saw who actualy did remove the cover. i found that a bit odd, i mean how else can you acuratly inspect for overloaded breakers, multi-taps and shatty wiring? i always do unless i see clear reasons on the outside not to. icon_cool.gif


Originally Posted By: dvalley
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I pull every cover (when accessible). And when there are no signs of electrical safety issues.



David Valley


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Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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lol…Well being an Electrician as I am…I do pull alot more than others…but my comment was really to reflect that YES HI’s should be pulling main service covers…as part of their inspection.



Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified


Electrical Service Specialists


Licensed Master Electrician


Electrical Contractor


President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter


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Originally Posted By: dglass
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My condo has a main panel in the bedroom, the main panel has been painted over, I have removed the panel box and it messed up the paint a little, so removing a panel box in this condition probably wouldn’t be a good idea.


There are more than six breakers… no main disconnect in the main panel, no labeling what so ever, so how do I tell the Capacity (Amps)?


Thanks in advance for the help


Originally Posted By: Jay Moge
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easy. use a sharp utility knife, get home owners permission and explain that you won’t be able to tell when your done, and open the panel. some people will go out of there way to “hide” stuff, even if they don’t know it’s there. far better to have to repaint a panel cover than to rewire a house. but thats me. i take 'em off even if they are painted. just be real carfull. it’s for they’re own good. icon_cool.gif


Originally Posted By: pdacey
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In TX we are required to pull the cover as per our SOP but do not have to report on the size of the service.


Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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Agreed…in many cases like attic entrances and so on that are painted over I have to get the permission of the seller and current owner which is not very hard when you tell the buying agent and client that you can’t inspect something you can’t get into and might damage it…they figure heck for $ 300,000 average they want me to get in…so the owners usually give permission.


But you do bring up a good point....BUT when it comes to electrical...repainting can't kill ya...but missing a major electrical defect that kills someone just might get you in hot water.....and a judge is going to say..." could you just not cut around the panel and check it....it is part of your SOP ...is it NOT?

Anyway...painted in panels.....My butt is cutting around them and checking them...no ifs ands or BUTTS.


--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com

Originally Posted By: jpope
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dglass wrote:
My condo has a main panel in the bedroom, the main panel has been painted over, I have removed the panel box and it messed up the paint a little, so removing a panel box in this condition probably wouldn't be a good idea.
There are more than six breakers... no main disconnect in the main panel, no labeling what so ever, so how do I tell the Capacity (Amps)?

Thanks in advance for the help


Your condo is most likely equipped with a distribution panel rather than a service (main) panel.

Your service panel is probably located in or near the meter closet. That's where you will find the service capacity for your condo. . .


Originally Posted By: jweinberg
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Jeffrey Pope wrote:
Your service panel is probably located in or near the meter closet. That's where you will find the service capacity for your condo. . .


Which brings up the question....How do you determine the size of the entire incoming Electrical Service for a 4 plex when there is no single Main Disconnect or meter?

Each unit has an individual meter and disconnect (1 unit has a 100 Amp disconnect and the other 3 units and the utility room have 60 Amp disconnects each and the conductors and meters {CL200} are all properly sized for these disconnects).

Any hints on determining the size of the Electrical Service would be appreciated. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/I/IMG_6075_r1.JPG ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/I/IMG_6076_r1.JPG ]


Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Jeff,


Most of those multi-plex units you are referring to either carry 200 Amps or 400 Amps.

Most SE cables are clearly viewable and the service Amps can be determined by the size of the cable. But there are underground service laterals out there that contain conduit piping all the way up to the metered area, which makes it impossible to see the size of the cable.

In that case, I simply annotate (on the report) that the SE cable was not viewed and the incoming Amperage can not be determined.


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David Valley
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Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

Originally Posted By: jweinberg
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dvalley wrote:
Jeff,

Most of those multi-plex units you are referring to either carry 200 Amps or 400 Amps.

Most SE cables are clearly viewable and the service Amps can be determined by the size of the cable. But there are underground service laterals out there that contain conduit piping all the way up to the metered area, which makes it impossible to see the size of the cable.

In that case, I simply annotate (on the report) that the SE cable was not viewed and the incoming Amperage can not be determined.


David,

Great Advice.... That is exactly the case with this SE. I like your verbiage....it is much better than the "Size of Electrical Service: Size Unknown" annotation that I had in the report. I'll change it before I send it out. THANKS!!! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)