Christmas Eve Question of the Day

Originally Posted By: jpope
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the sink.


Originally Posted By: mboyett
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GFCI.pdf )


Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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Nice chart Master Po. icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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jpope wrote:
My info says 1996.

1987 is when they were first required for counter top receptacles near the sink.



Jeff is correct, I use the same chart kindly produced by Jerry Peck & Norm Sage, prior to 1996 the distance was within 6 ft

Regards

Gerry


Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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Quote:
Although not required when originally built, all of the kitchen countertop outlets should be upgraded to have ground fault protection by an electrician, which is mandated by current standards and is an important safety feature.



Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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bkelly2 wrote:
I do not understand the need for the chart? ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif) If I was strictly a code Inspector maybe, but I am not. Even the bottom off the chart reccomends upgrading.

I write this for anything pre 2002
Quote:
Although not required when originally built, all of the kitchen countertop outlets should be upgraded to have ground fault protection by an electrician, which is mandated by current standards and is an important safety feature.


Ditto

Regards

Gerry


Originally Posted By: pbolliger
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icon_rolleyes.gif


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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So a counter in the kitchen more than 6 feet from water needs to have a GFCI?


Yes or no?

I understand the thinking behind the 12" counter as it would be wide enough to work with an appliance on, but if it is not near water, is a GFCI still required?

Or is just a grounded receptacle required?


Originally Posted By: jsieg
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I believe the answer your looking for is that ALL receptacles at a kitchen countertop of 12? or greater MUST have a GFCI PROTECTED receptacle. The chart states all counter tops not just ones of 12? or greater, though I think I read here on the BB that in kitchens any counter over 12? must have a receptacle.


Originally Posted By: mboyett
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gromicko wrote:
So a counter in the kitchen more than 6 feet from water needs to have a GFCI?

Yes or no??
Yes


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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NEC wrote:
(6) Kitchens ? where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces
Many countertop kitchen appliances are ungrounded, and the presence of water and grounded surfaces contributes to a hazardous environment, leading to the requirement in 210.8(A)(6) for GFCI protection around a kitchen sink. See Exhibit 210.13 and Exhibit 210.26. The requirement is intended for receptacles serving the countertop. Receptacles installed for disposals, dishwashers, and trash compactors are not required to be protected by a GFCI. According to 406.4(E), receptacles installed to serve countertops cannot be installed in the countertop in the face-up position because liquid, dirt, and other foreign material can enter the receptacle.


Regards

Gerry


Originally Posted By: jpope
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gromicko wrote:
I understand the thinking behind the 12" counter as it would be wide enough to work with an appliance on, but if it is not near water, is a GFCI still required?


According to the NEC, it does not matter the size of the counter. If the receptacle serves a kitchen counter top, it must be GFCI protected - period.

Requirements may be different in Canada. After all, electricity can't travel as fast in those cold temperatures ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


Originally Posted By: pdacey
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jpope wrote:
If the receptacle serves a kitchen counter top, it must be GFCI protected - period


That's why you have to remember to always check the outlet located on the wall on the other side of a pass through or a peninsula. I find them not protected quite often. Even in new construction.


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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So an island in the kitchen is a kitchen counter?


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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.


...does not require a GFCI at all kitchen counters. In fact it clearly explains why a GFCI is needed "the presence of water and grounded surfaces contributes to a hazardous environment" and explains that this lead to the requirement "for GFCI protection around the kitchen sink" and explains the exceptions (even though they are near water "disposals, dishwashers, and trash compactors"

Does anyone have the NEC requirement for GFCI's on all kitchen counters, even those far from water?


Originally Posted By: rbrown1
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gromicko wrote:
So an island in the kitchen is a kitchen counter?


Yes


Originally Posted By: rbrown1
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jpope wrote:

Requirements may be different in Canada. After all, electricity can't travel as fast in those cold temperatures ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)



Well Jeff, electricity travelling too fast in Canada will be certain to cause overheating, thereby causing areas of our igloos to melt. Given this case and this situation ALL of our electrical outlets in our igloos are required to be G.F.C.I. protected!



Just a 'lil cold humour!


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I believe you are all incorrect and I’ll explain why…


If a GFCI was required on ALL kitchen counters, the NEC would say just that and there would be NO need for the NEC to mention water, kichen sinks, and exceptions for certain water related appliances. The NEC would have simply said ALL kitchen counters... the NEC didn't.


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Nick,


all kichen receptacles over counters or otherwise are required to be GFCI protcted unless the are a single dedicated outlet.

Regards

Gerry


Originally Posted By: rbrown1
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Since 1973, homes built according to the National Electrical Code have varying degrees of GFCI protection. GFCIs were first required in outdoor receptacle circuits In 1973, bathrooms in 1975, garage wall outlets in 1978, some kitchen receptacles since 1987, and all receptacle outlets in unfinished basements and crawl spaces since 1990.



Might this help?