Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I call it an illegal installation according to the NEC and pretty dangerous too, since the service wires are rated for 200 amps and the secondary service panel wire is rated for 100 amps.
BTW...that would not be a sub panel, since both are connected at the lugs before the overcurrent device, that would make both panels the service panel. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Other than the two wires being under one terminal this could be allowed.
Make a splice in the first panel with proper connectors and you could have a legal installation.
Also you would have to know the total calculated load.
Quote:
230.90(A)Exception No. 3: Two to six circuit breakers or sets of fuses shall be permitted as the overcurrent device to provide the overload protection. The sum of the ratings of the circuit breakers or fuses shall be permitted to exceed the ampacity of the service conductors, provided the calculated load does not exceed the ampacity of the service conductors.
What we have here (it seems) is 200 amp service conductors feeding a 200 and a 100 amp breaker, strictly speaking you do have the ability to overload the service conductors by 100 amps, but none the less it is allowed if the calculated load in this case was less than 200 amps.
Not saying I like it but it thats the way it is. ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote Bob B:“Other than the two wires being under one terminal this could be allowed”.
Bob, the conductors being under one terminal was the reason I called it out obviously, but could you elaborate a little on the correct splicing method you mentioned?
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
You are allowed to splice service conductors.
You are allowed to make splices in panels. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)
The only requirement would be to use a spicing method for the size and type of conductor.
One way would be to do a running tap on the 200 amp conductors.
That means do not cut them, just strip some insulation off them and use a split bolt connector (Burndy) to add on the 100 amp conductors.
Then you would need to insulate that with heavy rubber tape and then regular tape.
Another way would be insulation piercing bolt on connector (couple taps)
I am not saying it is a great idea or that it would look good, just allowed.
You are right to call out the double tap on this breaker it is bad enough done on branch circuit conductors but to do this with service conductors is done right scary.
By the way is there a service disconnect outside at the meter or not?
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob, well the impression I got from the owner was that he did a lot of work on the property himself. As a matter of fact, he was replacing a front porch light fixture while I was there! He also was the original owner when the has was being built, so I guess he could’ve tapped the main breaker himself after final inspection and possibly while service was interupted for some reason.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
You know the repair is quick and cheap.
Move a couple of the 15 amp 120 volt circuits over to the 100 amp panel so you can get space in the 200 amp panel for a 2 pole 100 amp breaker to feed the 100 amp panel.
I know this is beyond what you will tell the customer, the point is it would have cost almost nothing to do this right in the first place. ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob, yes I know, actually, the main panel had a blank spot in it on the right side if you look at the 1st picture, plus, there were blank spaces at the bottom, not visible in the picture. This proved to me that the owner or a “knowledgable buddy” probably did this!