Builders and Real Estate Agents Conspire to Kill Fire Fighters

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by ryoung7

With the limited reading and knowledge I have on the subject that was one of the questions asked.

About homes with wells as the only source for water.
You can add a storage tank and separate pump to handle the sprinkler system added cost about $5,000;00
Apparently the systems are so advanced that it contains the fire to one room and uses little water to control and exhaust the fires supply for fuel.
Exactly minimum damage done to the home
They are efficient and cheap considering the alternative in building cost alone.
Yes and now we have the new manufactured H Beams in the basement ,
they do not last long in a conventional fire about 3 minutes .
This has caused some fire departments to no longer allow the fireman to enter the home
Just a kitchen redo is about 30 thousand plus.
I forgot the figures on new building costs to install the water sprinklers and will not hazard a guess.
Prices on a new home are about $1;60 a sq foot so a 2,000 sag ft. home adds about $3,200;00

Usually one head controls the fire and puts it out with no loss of life and very little damage .
I will be doing a presentation to out town soon to bring the new council up to date on fire protection

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Thanks Roy to me it a viable safety add-on to anyone building there home.
It would be a small percentage increase to new construction cost and also be a job simulator in the Canadian market place.
WIN WIN for everybody.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

JB, when did you install the sprinkler system in your own house? There is nothing that prohibits an upgrade, so we're all assuming that your house has state-of-the-art fire protection. How do you like it?

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

JB, when did you install the sprinkler system in your own house? There is nothing that prohibits an upgrade, so we're all assuming that your house has state-of-the-art fire protection. How do you like it?

Joe Like you I have not put sprinklers in my home .
Do I want it yes will I do it at this time I can not afford it but yes I do hope to install sprinklers .
I will be doing a presentation to our town council to see if they will help home owners out as the cost to our town could add up saving the town a huge amount of money.
Will keep all posted .
Does it pay to do council presentations I think so.
I did a talk on Burning barrels and presented it with facts and they now are no longer able to have a burn barrel here.

I can not find where a sprinkler equiped home has had a fire death in Canada.
We sure have lots of fire deaths and many more serious hurt for life

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

http://www.firesprinklersystemsinfo.com/residential-commercial-firesprinkler-systems.htm

"Residential And Commercial
Fire Sprinkler Systems Have An Amazing Record Of Saving
Lives-Discover Why!"

If you think your home or commercial building is safe without a fire sprinkler system installed, think again. Fires in all types of buildings, whether residential or commercial, are extremely common.
Here are some facts you might not know about the frequency of fire in buildings without fire sprinkler systems:

In the next hour, U.K. fire brigades will respond to 120 fire alarms.One in five people experiences a serious home fire in their lifetime.Across the U.K., two people die in a fire every day.Every thirty seconds, one person in the U.K. is seriously injured in a fire.Every day, 112 commercial buildings in the U.K. catch fire.In 2002, fire losses throughout the U.K. were estimated to be almost £7 billion.
Compare that to the facts about buildings with fire sprinkler systems installed:
In buildings with fire sprinkler systems, over 99% of fires are stopped before they do more than minimal damage.
Not one fire fatality has ever been recorded in a U.K. home with a fire sprinkler system installed.
When you look at the fire safety record of buildings with fire sprinkler systems installed vs. those that don't have a fire sprinkler installed, it's easy to see there's no comparison.
Most of us would be devastated by a serious fire. There's so much to lose-our homes, our belongings, our life's work, a business we've spent years or decades building-even our lives and the lives of those we love. If you have anything worth protecting from fire, you need a fire sprinkler system to do it.

Residential Fire Sprinkle Systems:
How To Burn Your House Down

If you don't have a fire sprinkler system installed in your home, you're playing with fire. Home is where you're most likely to experience a serious fire-over 80% of fire-related injuries and deaths happen in the home.
Most people don't realize how easy it is for a home fire to start. And in a home without a fire sprinkler system, these fires can take over a house before you have time to do anything about it. Here are eight of the quickest and easiest ways you can reduce your house to a pile of ash-without even being aware of it.

• Walk away from something cooking in the kitchenThe kitchen is often the most fire-prone room in the house. During down time in cooking, it's common to leave food unattended on the stove, in the oven, or in the microwave. If you use a dish that isn't oven or microwave safe, you could easily start a fire. A gas leak or a wooden spoon or open cookbook near a lit burner could also cause a serious flare-up.
• Let your electrical cords get worn outFrayed or chewed electrical cords start many house fires. If you have an electrical cord stretched across a floor or under a rug, the foot traffic could quickly wear the cord out. Exposed electrical wires will light your floor or rug on fire in no time. Pets often chew on electrical cords as well, causing serious fire hazards.
• Overload your power stripsOverloaded power strips can also cause fire. When overloaded, they can spark. If they're anywhere near anything flammable-and in most homes they are-a fire is very likely.
• Buy a malfunctioning electrical applianceMalfunctioning electrical appliances are a big source of fire. Most of us own more than a few electrical gadgets, all of which can malfunction at any time. Sparks from faulty toasters, coffee makers, televisions, computer monitors, or any electrical appliance you could name can cause serious fires.
• Put something flammable near something hotGetting anything flammable near a source of heat is a quick way to start a fire. Some dangerous examples include lamp shades that rest too close to the bulb, clothes or curtains too close to a radiator, or any flammable material close to a space heater.
• Leave a candle unattended-just for a minuteCandles cause hundreds of fires every year. Some candle holders aren't suitable for fire-they get too hot when the candle melts too far, causing a fire risk. Even with a safe holder, candles should never be left unattended. It only takes a minute for a pet or child to knock a candle over-or just nudge it too close to flammable material.
• Use a fireplace or wood stove incorrectlyFireplaces and wood stoves can be fire hazards when not properly used. Make sure your chimney is clear and clean before burning anything. Never throw away ashes that aren't 100% cool-even the tiniest smoldering coal could easily start a fire in your trash bin.
• Leave burning cigarettes unattendedCigarettes are a huge fire hazard. Smoking in bed, leaving a pipe or cigarette unattended, and emptying ashtray contents before they are cold cause hundreds of fires each year.

Once started, a fire can rage out of control in minutes. Many people don't realize how quickly a fire can spread, because most of us are used to seeing only controlled fires in fireplaces and on candlewicks. But a small fire can become a large one in the time it takes you to read this sentence. A fire sprinkler is activated the moment a fire starts-taking the fire out before it gets out of control.

Why People Don't Install
Residential Fire Sprinkler Systems:
5 Misconceptions That Could Kill You

Not everybody has a fire sprinkler system installed at home. In fact, it may be safe to say that most people don't have fire sprinkler systems. Why, if fires are so common and so dangerous, don't more people have fire sprinkler systems installed? Why isn't it a law?
In fact, many cities and regions throughout the U.K. have made it mandatory to install fire sprinkler systems-and fire chiefs in many more areas are calling for just such laws. But there are also many misconceptions that keep people from installing fire sprinkler systems. Here are five of the more common ones:

• A fire sprinkler causes more water damage than it's worthNot true. Each fire sprinkler in the system is designed to go off individually. The heat from a fire activates only the fire sprinkler directly above it. Water damage is minimal. In the case of more severe fires, where more than one fire sprinkler is activated, the water damage is much less than the fire damage would have been without the fire sprinkler system.
• I've got smoke alarms-so I'm safeThis is one of the most dangerous misconceptions out there. A smoke alarm does not provide full protection against fire. Because inattention is a frequent cause of fire, many start at night. Even though smoke alarms are loud, it can take several minutes for a person to wake, realize what's going on, and get out of the house when a fire starts. Those few minutes can be all a fire needs to block escape routes.
• A fire sprinkler installation is too expensiveInstalling a fire sprinkler system costs about as much as installing new carpets. Not as cheap as a set of new fire alarms, true. But the protection they provide to your family is worth any price.
• A fire sprinkler system isn't effective at controlling firesAgain, not true. Fire sprinkler systems are more effective than the fire brigade-and they use a tiny fraction of the water. The reason they are so effective is that they stop fires almost immediately, before they have a chance to get out of control. By the time the fire brigade arrives at a burning house, the fire has almost always grown much larger and is much more difficult to control.
• A fire sprinkler in every room will look unsightlyActually, most fire sprinkler manufacturers make specially-designed fire sprinkler heads that blend in with your walls and ceiling. Residential fire sprinklers can be installed in a recess and covered with a special cap that drops off in case of fire, covering the fire sprinkler head in the meantime so that it blends completely with the ceiling. These caps come in many colors to match your paint, or they can be custom-ordered.

Commercial Fire Sprinkler Systems:
Why Your Building Might Be Next

Commercial fires are just as common as residential fires-if not more so. Fire-related deaths in commercial buildings are less common than they are in residential buildings. However, commercial buildings have one big fire risk that isn't as common in residential fires: arson.
Arson is a big risk for commercial buildings. In the year of 2002 alone, approximately 117,800 fires were set deliberately. Billions of pounds of damage were caused in that year. Other fires start in commercial buildings for the same reasons they do in residential ones: faulty wiring or electrical equipment, kitchen mishaps, smoking accidents, and other simple mistakes coupled with a few minutes of inattention. Here are just a few recent instances in which businesses were devastated by fire:

A fire in a Paris hotel killed six people. The fire was reportedly started by the girlfriend of an employee after an argument. A four-storey commercial building in China killed over 300 people Christmas night. Christmas lights and decorations can be dangerous fire hazards in both commercial and residential buildings.Schools are huge targets for arson, particularly among delinquent youths. In 2002 alone, nearly £5 million worth of fire damage was done to Hampshire schools, with a great deal more across the U.K. that year.Australia's Palace Backpackers Hostel caught fire after midnight. Panicked travelers tried to escape down the stairs and out the windows of the burning building. Fifteen guests died in the fire. A paper storage warehouse in East London caught fire in the early morning. The fire grew so big that it could be seen for miles. The building, its stored records, and several delivery lorries were destroyed in the fire.

Installing Fire Sprinkler Systems
In Construction: What's In It For
Builders And Property Owners

So you own a commercial building, a block of residential flats, an HMO, or a new development. Why should you consider installing a fire sprinkler system?
There are several excellent reasons to put in fire sprinkler systems-and all will help your bottom line. Here are just a few of many:

Decades of records on property damage show that if you experience a fire in your building, you'll save 90% more on property damage costs with fire sprinkler systems than you would without fire sprinkler systems. The data is clear: just one fire, and a fire sprinkler system will pay for itself many times over. Insurance costs are less for businesses with fire sprinkler systems installed. You can expect, on average, a 15% decrease in premiums.A building with a fire sprinkler system installed is more valuable than one without a fire sprinkler system installed. If you plan on selling your building, you can leverage the extra fire safety provided by a fire sprinkler system to gain a bigger profit. Just one fire can destroy your livelihood, your home, and your family. A fire sprinkler system provides priceless protection to the things you value most. Stop putting your life and loved ones at needless risk-look into installing a fire sprinkler system today. Fires are common in both homes and businesses. Without a fire sprinkler system, the odds are one to five that you'll see at least one serious fire in your lifetime. With a fire sprinkler system installed, the odds are much better-a hundred to one that you won't.
With odds like that, the choice is clear: installing a fire sprinkler system is the best decision you can make to protect your family or business from a serious fire.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by rcooke

JI will be doing a presentation to our town council to see if they will help home owners out as the cost to our town could add up saving the town a huge amount of money.

How would the town save money by having homes sprinklered?

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

How would the town save money by having homes sprinklered?

Cost to fight a fire in an unsprinklered home $40,000;00 +or-
Cost to fight a fite in a sprinklered Home about $2,500;00 =or - Cost for Medical in sprinklered Home usually zero
Cost to our medical syatem for ladie hurt next door to me son Milions so far ,she will require an assistant for the rest of her life .

Now these figures could be off but that gives a idea .
I hope to have more accurate figures this year .
Any info or Ideas to help my presentation would be appreciated .
I was getting ready to make a presentation when the fire chief retired early.
Fire men do not live as long as the average person does do to work related problems.
Every Fire chief In Canada wants sprinklers in all homes .

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by rcooke

Cost to fight a fire in an unsprinklered home $40,000;00 +or-
Cost to fight a fite in a sprinklered Home about $2,500;00 =or - Cost for Medical in sprinklered Home usually zero
Cost to our medical syatem for ladie hurt next door to me son Milions so far ,she will require an assistant for the rest of her life .

How in the world does it cost $40,000 to put out a house fire??? For that matter, how does it cost $2,500 to put out a fire? For the most part, firefighting equipment and salaries (if any) are fixed costs.

If it cost $40K to the city every time a house burned down, every city in America would be broke.

Medical costs to residents doesn't cost the city anything directly (especially now that everyone has insurance under ObamaCare).

I'm still not convinced about the premise of your argument that cities should subsidize sprinklers for homes in order to save the city money.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

How in the world does it cost $40,000 to put out a house fire??? For that matter, how does it cost $2,500 to put out a fire? For the most part, firefighting equipment and salaries (if any) are fixed costs.

If it cost $40K to the city every time a house burned down, every city in America would be broke.

Medical costs to residents doesn't cost the city anything directly (especially now that everyone has insurance under ObamaCare).

I'm still not convinced about the premise of your argument that cities should subsidize sprinklers for homes in order to save the city money.

Our chief is the only employee The rest are volunteers .
How ever you add it up a hurt person costs the system ,Insurance ,Obama Care or in Canada the taxes pay .
Pain and suffering if that can be stopped great .
I expect you would be surprised if you found out the costs to fight a fire .
Off course equipment Trucks ect will last longer with minimum use not fighting fires .
Men will live longer not inhaling fumes .
Do a bit of digging Joe and I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised with what you learn.
We in North America have it better then most other areas .
Progress like clean running water flush toilets all came about because people like you and me wanted them .
One small example is no one now burns Plastic ,Garbage ,foam board , and I sleep better .
As a former USA Presided said one small step for man kind.

[James H. Bushart]

I suppose...depending upon the type of person you are....saving money might actually be more important than saving lives and property. If you are, this thread is way over your head.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I suppose...depending upon the type of person you are....saving money might actually be more important than saving lives and property. If you are, this thread is way over your head.

I'm sure you feel the freedom to make your own choices is not important.

How about we next mandate that automobiles have the survivability of a tank.

Think of all the lives that would be saved.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

There you go, another great ideal! You will be a Nader before you know it, Mikey

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I suppose...depending upon the type of person you are....saving money might actually be more important than saving lives and property. If you are, this thread is way over your head.

This is how you save everyone on earth from an accidental death:

1) Get inside a sprinkler equipped home.

2) Never leave your home! Sit in a corner all day long and do not move! Do not take a bath because you might fall and hit your head. Do not walk anywhere else in the house because you might trip and fall and hit your head. Sell your car, you don't need that dangerous thing! Quit your job...there are too many hazards there! Just sit in your corner. Do not turn on any electrical equipment because you could get electrocuted. Do not go in the attic or any where else...just sit in your corner. Do NOT sit in a chair, because the chair might fail and you could hit your head. Have someone else do all your meal preparation and bring you the food (you can't move...remember?). Eat only raw vegetables. Don't forget the hand sanitizer! Do not move out of your corner of your sprinklered home!

That will save everyone who follows that simple, life saving plan, JB!

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbraun

There you go, another great ideal! You will be a Nader before you know it, Mikey

I have a million of them.

All you have to do is think of a way to make everything perfectly safe and remove all risk.

It's the Nanny State Way.

[Michael Larson]

I still want to know why Jim has not installed these life saving devices in his own home?

He does believe that everyone else should have them, right?