buyers Hiring Contractors to do Home Inspections

[Larry N. Lake]

Originally Posted by cbottger

She is only calling in a plumber and an electrcian. Do you see a big gap here?

No Larry she did not call a plumber or an electrican she called me I filled your gap.

Man speak of the Devil! You are the one that told a friend of mine (Steve Barry) lies about me to steal the inspection. You are married to a Realtor and kiss B____ with them to get referrals. You dare come on here and tell me you filled the gap! So what kind of stories did you tell this woman about me?

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Yes...and your E&O would not cover their mistakes...just yours. Be careful with this kind of stuff.

Unless you have a copy of his E&O policy, it's difficult that "your E&O would not cover their mistakes." Notwithstanding, HomeTeam franchises have been using subcontractors for over a decade as members of their teams with no problems whatsoever. Perhaps we just have a better subcontractor's agreement.

But, yes, as with everything in life, be careful, i.e., work with your attorneys to create a subcontractor's agreement that is valid for your city, county, and state, and then run it by your E&O provider for confirmation.

[James H. Bushart]

According to Ben Garrison of FREA (feel free to chime in, if you read this, Ben) your E&O premiums are based upon your actions as a home inspector, only. You have not paid the insurance company to cover the actions of others and they are not compelled to pay should the actions of others result in a lawsuit.

[Mark A. Timpani, CMI]

Larry another way to help you is to say "yes, I can do that." She wants just the roof? yes! Just the plumbing? yes! Just change the contract so it reads that this is not a home inspection. I try not to argue when people want to give me money. I just try to accommodate.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by llake

Man speak of the Devil! You are the one that told a friend of mine (Steve Barry) lies about me to steal the inspection. You are married to a Realtor and kiss B____ with them to get referrals. You dare come on here and tell me you filled the gap! So what kind of stories did you tell this woman about me?

Larry you have no friends; no PR at all your so called friend Steve called me I did not call him when people call me I do not ask them if they know any other HI's not part of my phone protocol????

As for me coming on this board I have been here off and on for years where have you been.

Yes I am married to a Realtor and have been for 37 years. My inspections stand by themselves you stated business for you was slow and have only done 500 to 600 total since starting your business.

My total is approaching 2000 that should tell you something.

Yes there are two Real Estate companies in Ponca that use nothing but contractors for inspections and I blame you for that as I have had many Realtors state that all your inspections reports just defer everything to contractors, so their thinking is why not just have the contractors do it in the first place.

Realtors say Larry does not walk the roofs and does not crawl the crawl spaces he is going to get us in a Law suit.

As for me Kissing Realtors A**'s don't have to. You probably don't know that I testified in court against the top Realtor in Ponca and it cost me over 100K in business I just moved on. I inspect in Enid, Wellington KA, Beeville OKC, Stillwater, Perry, Guthrie, Lahoma Carmen, Jet, Nash. What ever it takes???

You Really should stop whining get off of your Butt get some CE and start marketing your self. All you want to do is blame Realtors for your misgiving instead of yourself.

[Larry N. Lake]

Originally Posted by mtimpani

Larry another way to help you is to say "yes, I can do that." She wants just the roof? yes! Just the plumbing? yes! Just change the contract so it reads that this is not a home inspection. I try not to argue when people want to give me money. I just try to accommodate.

Maybe you missed what I said early in the thread, or maybe I did not explain it well on here, but I did say yes! I said yes to this woman. I was just trying to help her understand that a complete home inspection is best not to hire separate contractors but went on to say that if she wanted me to do the structural then yes I will do that for her. She called me back and hired me over the phone, but then later her lawyer called me and started interrogating me which was very weird. This is why I came in here to ask you guys if you have ever had a situation like that. Remember I also called NACHI legal department and they told me that was a red flag that her lawyer called me. That is when I called her and politely asked told her that her lawyer called and I had some concerns. Some people are sue happy and thought that maybe she was one of these people. Anyway I lost the job and was kind of glad. Now Charlie for some reason wanted to throw that in my face that he filled my gap! So now it has become double weird.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by jbushart

According to Ben Garrison of FREA (feel free to chime in, if you read this, Ben) your E&O premiums are based upon your actions as a home inspector, only. You have not paid the insurance company to cover the actions of others and they are not compelled to pay should the actions of others result in a lawsuit.

That's better information than your previous post. As Ben told us previously (feel free to chime in, if you read this, Ben), FREA is a broker, and while they believe they have a very good policy, there are better policies for inspectors with different circumstances.

I've checked with FREA each time my E&O came due, and they just can't match my current policy, which is through Lloyds of London/Business Risk Partners. Most HomeTeam franchises have E&O that covers their subcontractors, especially the larger franchises that do 2,000-4,000 inspections a year. But even then, the subcontracting relationship has to be set up properly, which means an appropriate signed agreement in place between the home inspector and his subcontractors. That, of course, means working with one's attorneys and E&O provider to create that appropriate agreement for one's city, county, and state.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mtimpani

I try not to argue when people want to give me money. I just try to accommodate.

After reading your posts over the years, that is exactly what I would have expected of you.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by llake

<Sorry I am trying to get used to this forum, I tried to cut and paste what I have just written and it will not let me. I think it would help if we could copy, cut, and paste>

Larry, Depending on which browser you are using, you may have to"paste: using "Control -- V"

On your subject of using specialist there have been several discussions on this board over the past few months about the "Team" approach to Home Inspection, where a NACHI Inspector hires or subs out the different portions of their Inspection to licensed Electricians, Plumbers, SE's, ETC., some claim to be getting $1000 to $1500 or more per inspection claiming they are offering a Superior Home Inspection, maybe they do? In my opinion the Inspector who operates this way is just a Marketer and Salesman, he finds the jobs and has his "Team" performs the Inspection, maybe that's a good idea, if your market will handle $1500 Inspections, but with the usual short time period that the buyer has to "Inspect" the property, it might be difficult to get all the "Licensed Professionals" together to perform the Home Inspection within the required time. I've thought about offering "Technical Inspections" in my area.

I live in what several National magazines call Baby Boomer Heaven, the number One Boomer Retirement Community, I've met a lot of Licensed Tradesmen who moved here from other areas and are "semi retired", just interested in doing enough work to support their Hobbies, I may talk to a few of them, it may work here with the number of $$$Million plus Homes for sale around here.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by rray

That's better information than your previous post. As Ben told us previously (feel free to chime in, if you read this, Ben), FREA is a broker, and while they believe they have a very good policy, there are better policies for inspectors with different circumstances.

I've checked with FREA each time my E&O came due, and they just can't match my current policy, which is through Lloyds of London/Business Risk Partners. Most HomeTeam franchises have E&O that covers their subcontractors, especially the larger franchises that do 2,000-4,000 inspections a year. But even then, the subcontracting relationship has to be set up properly, which means an appropriate signed agreement in place between the home inspector and his subcontractors. That, of course, means working with one's attorneys and E&O provider to create that appropriate agreement for one's city, county, and state.

Allen Insurance requires you to list your Subcontractors, seeing as I don't use any at the present time I don't know if or how much any additional fee would be. If I used Subs I would require them to have their own Insurance, but I would cover my ***** by making sure my policy covered me in the event of Claims made against the subs.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

On your subject of using specialist there have been several discussions on this board over the past few months about the "Team" approach to Home Inspection, where a NACHI Inspector hires or subs out the different portions of their Inspection to licensed Electricians, Plumbers, SE's, ETC., some claim to be getting $1000 to $1500 or more per inspection claiming they are offering a Superior Home Inspection, maybe they do?

As an example, here's the prices on three of my comparable inspections for a 1750-SF SFR:

STANDARD - $499
TECH - $1,499

So as of today (prices change on a daily basis due to third-party costs, such as gasoline), my TECH inpsection costs $1,000 more than my STANDARD inspection. With my STANDARD inspection, I used to send out two inspectors on that size property. With my TECH inspection, there would be one inspector as the lead, and electrician, plumber, roofing contractor, chimney sweep, and HVAC tech as the subs. After all the subs have been paid, I take home about $549, whereas if two home inspectors did it, I charge $499, so I make about $50 more for the TECH inspection. I set it up that way just in case it takes one of those subs a little longer to do something. It's worked great for the two years I've been doing it.

Originally Posted by lcapaul

In my opinion the Inspector who operates this way is just a Marketer and Salesman, he finds the jobs and has his "Team" performs the Inspection

Yes, and no. The Team always includes at least one home inspector as the lead contact person.

Originally Posted by lcapaul

if your market will handle $1500 Inspections

Any market will handle the $1500 inspection if one markets it properly. Will you make enough money off of those for a comfortable living? Probably not until you have 20 years of experience and so many customers that you can choose just to do that type of inspection. Jerry Peck in Florida was a great example before he retired. He's the one who ultimately convinced me that the market here, which is so price-sensitive, could handle them. And it can. One just has to know how to market them. Of course, first one has to develop them. If one is stuck in the "one inspection fits all" mode, one's probably not going to be successful in making a good living just doing that one type of $1500 inspection.

Originally Posted by lcapaul

but with the usual short time period that the buyer has to "Inspect" the property, it might be difficult to get all the "Licensed Professionals" together to perform the Home Inspection within the required time.

That's exactly the problem that I had during my first three years in business. The first two questions the subs asked me was, "How long have you been in business?" and "How many inspections do you do each year?" Not until I had three years of experience and thousands of inspections were the subs even willing to talk with me.

Originally Posted by lcapaul

I've met a lot of Licensed Tradesmen who moved here from other areas and are "semi retired", just interested in doing enough work to support their Hobbies

Those are exactly the right type of people to approach, and they are the easiest to work with. They are just thrilled that someone, anyone, still wants them and their knowledge at their advanced age. Many societies throughout the world treat their elders with respect; we retire them, so to speak.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

Allen Insurance requires you to list your Subcontractors, seeing as I don't use any at the present time I don't know if or how much any additional fee would be. If I used Subs I would require them to have their own Insurance, but I would cover my ***** by making sure my policy covered me in the event of Claims made against the subs.

So that seems to indicate that we have at least two companies that cover subcontractors, Lloyds of London/Business Risk Partners and Allen.

I also list my subcontractors, and they have their own insurance, and I'm listed as an additional insured. There are many ways to work with subcontractors in our industry. You, your attorneys, and your insurance provider just have to develop the best way for your city, county, and state. A great real estate attorney can get you started off on the right foot.

[Larry N. Lake]

Originally Posted by cbottger

Larry you have no friends; no PR at all your so called friend Steve called me I did not call him when people call me I do not ask them if they know any other HI's not part of my phone protocol????

As for me coming on this board I have been here off and on for years where have you been.

Yes I am married to a Realtor and have been for 37 years. My inspections stand by themselves you stated business for you was slow and have only done 500 to 600 total since starting your business.

My total is approaching 2000 that should tell you something.

Yes there are two Real Estate companies in Ponca that use nothing but contractors for inspections and I blame you for that as I have had many Realtors state that all your inspections reports just defer everything to contractors, so their thinking is why not just have the contractors do it in the first place.

Realtors say Larry does not walk the roofs and does not crawl the crawl spaces he is going to get us in a Law suit.

As for me Kissing Realtors A**'s don't have to. You probably don't know that I testified in court against the top Realtor in Ponca and it cost me over 100K in business I just moved on. I inspect in Enid, Wellington KA, Beeville OKC, Stillwater, Perry, Guthrie, Lahoma Carmen, Jet, Nash. What ever it takes???

You Really should stop whining get off of your Butt get some CE and start marketing your self. All you want to do is blame Realtors for your misgiving instead of yourself.

You say I have no friends? Well among the Realtors I suppose you are right..why? Because I do a good job and they know it. If you want proof ask my past clients they praise my work. The deal with Steve Barry, well he did hire me first (word of mouth only) then he later told me how you told him I had lack of experience, did not belong to the local chapter that you belong to etc. Steve had some mental problems and I figure he was easily swayed. I did call you about that and you even told me that I needed to learn to get along with Realtors and that I had to learn to walk a fine line....something of that nature. OK when I first got in the business I tried to use PR with Realtors I was naive back then, but I found out real quick they do not like good home inspectors. They tried to get me to cut my fees, indirectly tried to get me to go soft on inspections. Down the road I got yelled at because I found record levels of radon here in Ponca City and the Realtor thought she would loose her deal, but she did not. I have been doing radon testing ever since and I feel like I am providing a service that may save people from getting lung cancer. The high levels of radon even made the local news, and it even quoted there was another local inspector that said that radon was a none issue. I wonder who said that?

OK it is not a crime to be married to a Realtor, but there can be a lot of temptation to cater to Realtors since you are married to one, and a potential conflict of interest.

You say you have more inspections than me and that speaks for itself? To me it tells me that you get along better with Realtors than I do and I already explained why.

You say there are two Real Estate companies here that only use contractors because of me? What? I did not know I had that much power over companies. Well to set the record straight, for one thing Realtors should not be using anybody. Their job is to sell the house, they are sales people they have no business in the inspection procedures, that is what is wrong with the world today. There is an inherent conflict of interest when Realtors are allowed to have that power. Go to Dennis Robitailles web site and read! www.independentinspectors.org

Dennis is a hero in my book he has stood up against Realtors and was instrumental in getting laws passed in Massachusetts making it illegal for Realtors to pick home inspectors. We need a law like that here in Oklahoma and all across the country. Realtors should never and I mean never pick inspectors or contractors for the buyers!!!

You went to court against a Realtor well good for you. I have moved on also and do inspections all over the country.

Back to the statement that I defer everything to contractors is not true, but we have the right to do so read your training manuals. People will always need the contractors after our inspection is done for cost of repairs, bids, and finally making the repairs needed. Realtors are the ones whining and ********, they want a fast and easy sale. They love pass and easy inspectors that will whore out to them.

You say I should stop whining and get off my butt and market myself....what??? I do market, through internet, cards to people I meet, yellow pagesand I get busienss through word of mouth. But I do not market Realtors and you know why. I will not say all Realtors are bad just about 95% is all. It has been my experience and the experience of my clients all across the country that Realtors are worse than used car salemen. They even fight among themselves. It is all about greed!!!!!!!!!!!! It takes a real man and gut's to stand up against their empire and do what is right for the clients. No one is looking out for the client or buyer except us home inspectors and if we compromise or sell out we have just helped add to the corruption.

[lcapaul]

Those are exactly the right type of people to approach, and they are the easiest to work with. They are just thrilled that someone, anyone, still wants them and their knowledge at their advanced age. Many societies throughout the world treat their elders with respect; we retire them, so to speak

Are you trying to make me feel old RR? Many of the Semi-retired tradesmen who have moved to the Coeur d'Alene area are in their mid 50's or so, they have good 401k's or other good retirement income, and they have sold their homes in much more expensive areas, paid off everything, and slapped down $300K or so cash to purchase a home here in Paradise, now they want just enough work to keep them busy when the fish aren't biting, the water in the lakes is to cold for swimming/skiing, hunting season is closed, the Ski Lodges aren't open, etc. Most don't want to be so busy as to have work interfere with the "Important Things" any more.

The median price of a home here is around $240K, but there are pages and pages of homes in the $750K+ range in the local Realty magazines, many of these are purchased by out of state buyers as second or third homes, and in my opinion, would be a good target market for a Tech Inspection, many of these homes, including many multi million $$$ places are older homes with outdated systems and/or "questionable" former remodels. If I do start doing this type of Inspection, I may do them as a GC, not an Inspector, that's what I was doing in 04' when I broke my leg and spent nearly a year recovering, along with becoming more than 1/2 inch shorter on one side.

I just finished a project that began in Feb., a buyer from Maryland wanted me to inspect two different properties, using Licensed Tradesmen as needed, and then to submit bids on the cost to repair each house, he ended up buying the one that was more expensive to "repair", that was just what I used to do as a GC, but then I did what work on different projects that I could do myself and supervised all the other repairs or upgrades. These two Inspections were far outside of NACHI Standards so I didn't consider them to be Home Inspections, I also ended up checking and scheduling the work of the tradesmen doing the repairs, it was Very Good Money for the time and effort involved. It was not a "project" you would see very often as an HI.

A question for our "Ethical Leadership", can a subcontractor such as an Electrician performing his portion of a "technical" Nachi Home Inspection involving several licensed professionals working as a "team" bid on and perform repairs to the systems he inspected?

[jhugenroth]

Originally Posted by rray

That is exactly why home inspectors should offer re-inspections (at a cost) to their Clients.

Be careful here. Some carriers will not insure you for re-inspections. The reason being that if the problem along with the liability has been deferred to a specialist, a re-inspection can put the liability back on you should something go wrong.

For those with E&O, check with your insurance provider.