The course ASHI doesn't want you to attend. Angela turns our attorney down.

[Nick Gromicko]

Attorney Joe Ferry gives a course called "Law and Disorder: Survival Strategies for the Professional Home Inspector in a Litigation Nation" at http://www.homeinspectorce.com/

This course had been previously approved by ASHI (last year) and many ASHI members have taken it and even provided testimonials.

Angela however did not renew approval this year due to the fact that Joe is one of InterNACHI's attorneys.

Scott Patterson.... wrong again.

I again ask our COE Committee to prohibit our members from financially supporting a known no-entrance-requirement diploma mill and make all duel members choose which association they want to belong to. I promise, more than 9 out of 10 will stay with InterNACHI and dump the no-member-benefits mini-association.

[Blaine Wiley]

Originally Posted by gromicko

I again ask our COE Committee to prohibit our members from financially supporting a known no-entrance-requirement diploma mill and make all duel members choose which association they want to belong to. I promise, more than 9 out of 10 will stay with InterNACHI and dump the no-member-benefits mini-association.

No. It is not the right thing to do, regardless of whether we gain or lose members.

If you wish to make a membership requirement, that could be debated, but the COE is already overblown in section 3.

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Attorney Joe Ferry gives a course called "Law and Disorder: Survival Strategies for the Professional Home Inspector in a Litigation Nation" at http://www.homeinspectorce.com/

This course had been previously approved by ASHI (last year) and many ASHI members have taken it and even provided testimonials.

Angela however did not renew approval this year due to the fact that Joe is one of InterNACHI's attorneys.

Scott Patterson.... wrong again.

I again ask our COE Committee to prohibit our members from financially supporting a known no-entrance-requirement diploma mill and make all duel members choose which association they want to belong to. I promise, more than 9 out of 10 will stay with InterNACHI and dump the no-member-benefits mini-association.

Nick,

I've got to say again, this isn't an "ethics" issue. It's a business one. Even though I am not currently an ASHI supporter, nor do I wish to be one. In the St. Louis market, it is a difficult business decision, and one that I am constantly re-thinking. ASHI HAS put itself into the Realtors mind as being a requirement, and I am consistently in a "re-education" mode when I am dealing with them. I also know that my market is not the only one out there like this. So, please do not encourage the COE Committee to dictate to your members who we choose to do business with.

AS AN ALTERNATIVE, I propose more of a "tit-for-tat" approach..., simply apply the same education policies towards ASHI courses that they apply to iNACHI courses. If those are the rules that ASHI is wanting to play by, then apply those same rules to them. That would be a "business" issue, and one that would not force your members into a difficult decision.

Sincerely and respectfully

Mark

[Joe Farsetta]

I agree, Mark and Blaine, that this is not an issue for ESOP. Nevertheless, it is very dissapointing.

When will ASHI wake up and realize that the idea is to get inspectors, ALL INSPECTORS, the education they need, and more importantly, WANT?

NACHI has had a long-standing policy of acceptance when it comes to education. As long as it is legit, and as long as it is inspection related, it counted for NACHI credits.

Shall we, as the world's largest HI association, simply exclude any ASHI-approved course, because it is to our advantage to do so? I think not.

And perhaps this is the reason for the widening chasm.

We dont even charge a fee when accepting ASHI-approved courses. So what's the issue.

I have been told that I can submit my courses to ASHI for approval, pay the fee (even though they have already been approved by several states) and they will likely be approved. I have asked for some further clarification, but I see they once approved, they are apparently subject to having those approvals dis-approved.

Shall I now decide that ASHI courses can no longer count for our members as NACHI approved credits? Is this what things are coming to? I dont think I am inclined to go in that direction, but will ask for input from all chapter presidents if their members want to follow the ASHI model, and choose exclusion as opposed to inclusion.

Scott, if you are reading this, please give me a shout. Thanks.

[whandley]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Attorney Joe Ferry gives a course called "Law and Disorder: Survival Strategies for the Professional Home Inspector in a Litigation Nation" at http://www.homeinspectorce.com/

This course had been previously approved by ASHI (last year) and many ASHI members have taken it and even provided testimonials.

Angela however did not renew approval this year due to the fact that Joe is one of InterNACHI's attorneys.

Scott Patterson.... wrong again.

I again ask our COE Committee to prohibit our members from financially supporting a known no-entrance-requirement diploma mill and make all duel members choose which association they want to belong to. I promise, more than 9 out of 10 will stay with InterNACHI and dump the no-member-benefits mini-association.

While trying to develope an email database of local HI's for the SoCal InterNACHI Chapter, I found many INACHI members who make no mention of INACHI on their websites and or advertising materials. I did find they were promoting CREIA and ASHI however, here's an example I just pulled from the INACHI inspector locator:

http://www.relianceinspections.com/index.html

Why not review all member websites. We could give 30 day notice to cancel membership when INACHI is not properly displayed and or referenced on the home page.

Where's Joe F. when we need him?

[Joe Farsetta]

Now that IS a membership requirement and posted in the COE.

Provide their names to lisa.endza@nachi.org, along with their links.

Going, going, gone...

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

This is very dissapointing.

When will ASHI wake up and realize that the idea is to get inspectors, ALL INSPECTORS, the education they need, and more importantly, WANT?

NACHI has had a long-standing policy of acceptance when it comes to education. As long as it is legit, and as long as it is inspection related, it counted for NACHI credits.

Shall we, as the world's largest HI association, simply exclude any ASHI-approved course, because it is to our advantage to do so? I think not.

And perhaps this is the reason for the widening chasm.

We dont even charge a fee when accepting ASHI-approved courses. So what's the issue.

I have been told that I can submit my courses to ASHI for approval, pay the fee (even though they have already been approved by several states) and they will likely be approved. I have asked for some further clarification, but I see they once approved, they are apparently subject to having those approvals dis-approved.

Shall I now decide that ASHI courses can no longer count for our members as NACHI approved credits? Is this what things are coming to? I dont think I am inclined to go in that direction, but will ask for input from all chapter presidents if their members want to follow the ASHI model, and choose exclusion as opposed to inclusion.

Scott, if you are reading this, please give me a shout. Thanks.

Time has come to no longer unilaterally accept ASHI Affiliated Continuing Education.

I agree that it is not an Ethics issue but rather a Business decision.

Announce Publicly that:

ASHI is no longer approved as a NACHI CEU Providor.

Problem solved.........

[Blaine Wiley]

WE are the big boys on the block. We need to be above the fray and not play tit for tat games with an assocition in decline.

We have a solid COE, and solid CE requirements. We should continue to accept what we feel is a benefit for home inspectors as CE, and continue to provide it to whoever wishes to take it. If the ashi folks don't want their inspectors to take excellent education we provide it is their loss, and shows that they are only for the betterment of their association, not the home inspection industry.

[Joe Farsetta]

I just sent the individual mentioned an e-mail explaining the policy and requirement. I do not anticipate a problem.

[whandley]

Done!

[mnahrgang]

Maybe my tit-for-tat idea isn't such a great one after all.

I think I agree with the posts that say that NACHI is bigger than that.

Maybe it would be better over all to simply accept the training that is available as we always have, and just be the better man (org.).

I think in the long run folks will recognize ASHI for what it is, and either ASHI will alter their policies or die on the vine, and wither away.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

• IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED!

• WORTH REPEATING!

In the future {as in the past} if ASHI wants us to honor their seminars they must on a “seminar by seminar” basis;

1. Submit a lesson plan / core curriculum for the seminar.

2. ASHI charges $25.00 per CEU for “review” of the material. We will reciprocate.

3. A money order or cashier’s check made out to NACHI-NH must accompany this material.

4. Submit a bio of the instructor.

PS:
Scott,
Since YOU have chosen to interject yourself in this matter .... Be sure to get this message out to your New Hampshire ASHI buddies.
--

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by bwiley

No. It is not the right thing to do, regardless of whether we gain or lose members.

If you wish to make a membership requirement, that could be debated, but the COE is already overblown in section 3.

Where is it "overblown"?

1. Duty to the Profession and InterNACHI
2. The InterNACHI member shall strive to improve the Home Inspection Industry by sharing his/her lessons and/or experiences for the benefit of all. This does not preclude the member from copyrighting or marketing his/her expertise to other Inspectors or the public in any manner permitted by law.
3. The InterNACHI member shall assist the InterNACHI leadership in disseminating and publicizing the benefits of InterNACHI membership.
4. The InterNACHI member shall not engage in any act or practice that could be deemed damaging, seditious or destructive to InterNACHI, fellow InterNACHI members, InterNACHI employees, leadership or directors. Member(s) accused of acting or deemed in violation of such rules shall be reviewed by the Ethics committee for possible sanctions and/or expulsion from InterNACHI.
5. The InterNACHI member shall abide by InterNACHI's current membership requirements.
6. The InterNACHI member shall abide by InterNACHI's current message board rules.

[Nick Gromicko]

I think we've solved the problem. Joe Ferry is in NACHI.TV studios now. We're going to shoot a series of shows based on his course and ASHI members can watch them regardless of whether or not Angela allows ASHI members to watch them.

[James H. Bushart]

I agree with Nick and disagree with Joe Farsetta on this one. This is, indeed, an ethical issue...ethics being defined as the study and application of "what is right" and "what is wrong" in the course of doing business with the public.

NACHI and ASHI are two totally different and diverse organizations....and we differ in all of the ways that are good and positive for the inspector and his client. ASHI is different in the ways that are harmful to inspectors (limiting access to education, for example) and his client (misleading statements to the press, false accusations made against anything or anyone not ASHI, and so on).

How ethical would it be for a home inspector to hold dual membership with Al Quada, the Taliban, or the Ku Klux Klan---or to be found financially supporting any of these organizations? These associations are also harmful to home inspectors and the public.

I am not certain that I would like to see such a line drawn in the sand at this particular moment in our history....but as to the question "Is this a matter of ethics?", I have to say that it is.

Nick is right on this one.