Electrical box in a garage ceiling

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Does an electrical box in a garage ceiling violate a firewall standard? Do you call this out? Do you know of any jurisdictions that have commented upon the apparent opening of the firewall of the garage ceiling by an electrical box/outlet/receptacle/fixture?

[Brian E. Kelly]

J-Box, outlet box?? Metal boxes are not combustible.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

J-Box, outlet box?? Metal boxes are not combustible.

Metal boxes are not air-tight either. Regardless of the material of the plate cover or the electrical box, isn't there a pathway for fire through there? Does anyone have any code references? (a metal electrical box is not equivalent to a firewall material - yes?)

[Michael R. Boyett]

Ben, the 2006 IRC says:

R309.1.2 Other penetrations. Penetrations through the separation
required in Section R309.2 shall be protected by filling
the opening around the penetrating item with approved material
to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.

Commentary:This section addresses the annular space which results
from a penetration of the common wall by pipes,
conduits or ductwork. It is important that the code official
verify that these spaces are properly filled and do
not compromise the protection offered by the common
wall between the residence and garage against the
free passage of smoke, fire, noxious gases and odors.

That doesn't specifically answer your question but that's what I see on quick glance. The underlined (mine) section seems to indicate that even j-boxes should be considered improper penetrations unless somehow filled, fire-stopped or (as Brian points out) rated for such.

[Brian E. Kelly]

http://www.alliedmoulded.com/Ceiling...%209-25-06.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=guY...age&q=&f=false


Perhaps you should get Nick to buy you a code book or two Ben.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

http://www.alliedmoulded.com/Ceiling...%209-25-06.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=guY...age&q=&f=false


Perhaps you should get Nick to buy you a code book or two Ben.

I don't read. I only learn from video.
That information is great stuff. But during an inspection, what do you say to your client (if anything). What is your narrative (if you have one) about the electrical box in the garage firewall ceiling?

[Brian E. Kelly]

Video, excellent. I do not say anything Ben. But I am thinking about that now. Dangit Ben.

[rbibler]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

I don't read. I only learn from video.
That information is great stuff. But during an inspection, what do you say to your client (if anything). What is your narrative (if you have one) about the electrical box in the garage firewall ceiling?

What happed to the the GURU GUY ?

In Calif The panel needs to be rated for this application. But i don't think I have ever had one in a garage. All main panels are on the out side and all service panels are on the interior some place.

Best

Ron

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by rbibler

What happed to the the GURU GUY ?

In Calif The panel needs to be rated for this application. But i don't think I have ever had one in a garage. All main panels are on the out side and all service panels are on the interior some place.

Best

Ron

Ron, think garage door outlet box.

[rbibler]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Ron, think garage door outlet box.

Its been a long day

Best

Ron

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by rbibler

Its been a long day

Best

Ron

No worries Ron.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Not to change the subject, but ...
What about attic pull-down stairs in the garage? I often find that they have been installed by the homeowner, are apparently not fire-rated, have a exposed 1/4-inch thick plywood panel, and are not air-tight at the seams.

If the firewall of the garage does not extend up to the roof sheathing, then the pull-down is a breach in the firewall.

If there is a firewall that extends up to the roof, the pull-down is still a problem. The pull-down allows fire to be sucked into the attic. Since the pull-down is not air-tight, and there's a natural low pressure in the attic space, then gases, smoke and fire could be naturally sucked up into the attic space.

If the attic pull-down in the garage ceiling is not obviously labeled as fire-resistance rated, I flag it.