Is FLIR infared imaging the future wave of Home Inspections?

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jwatts1

Most Realtors are going to HATE this tool....... It will be the DEAL KILLER TOOL! just watch...

Yes, but RE lawyers, mortgage companies and clients will love it.

Besides, most of the calls I get, specifically for thermal imaging, are from past customers who have flooded basements, leaky roofs and pipes or some sot of water intrusion. It is also turning out to be a big cross marketing tool for mold inspections.

Basement floods (not really flooding, but heavy seepage). Client calls me out to check the extent of intrusion (under carpet, behind walls, etc). Most times I find that the water is localized (only on one side or one part of the basement). Client is happy because they don't have to rip out all the flooring and walls, only in one area. I am also getting to meet more and more flood remediation companies. They are starting to call me in (as a sub to them) when ever they are called to help them identify where the damage is. They just love the camera.

I have also gotten some calls from plumbers and GCs who have radiant water heating that has been pierced. I can localize the break and save them from having to dig up the whole slab.

Many uses.

[jmichalski]

Will, how would you compare your IR camera to this one?

http://www.palmerwahl.com/pdfs/Heat%...%20HSI3000.pdf

It seems like a similar product (and I'm sure the more expensive models may have more feaures) but for less than $5K, it looks like this may do the trick....

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jmichalski

Will, how would you compare your IR camera to this one?

http://www.palmerwahl.com/pdfs/Heat%...%20HSI3000.pdf

It seems like a similar product (and I'm sure the more expensive models may have more feaures) but for less than $5K, it looks like this may do the trick....

Looks pretty good, Jim. Same resolution as the low priced FLIR.

The FLIR stores up to 100 pictures for UBS download, while this one uses an SD card (have to check the number of pictures stored).

No real tile display of temp differential (that I can tell, but I might be just missing it).

The FLIR has 4 different display modes and I don't know about this one.

The main thing I can say is WHERE THE HECK WERE THEY WHEN I FORKED OUT $2,500 MORE!

But that's just me.

Please remember, get the training for this. Level I certification, a national standard. It only hurts when you don't know what you are looking at or how to interpret it. That could lead to false positives and get you sued.

Hope thsi helps;

[tmels]

hi Will
I was wandering how much you charge for your thermal imaging inspections

[Nick Gromicko]

Michael Rowan just bought 6 of them for his inspectors. His payment for 6 was only $800 total or $150/month each. I would think that properly marketed, you could earn an additional $150/month with one.

[gporter]

where did he buy them so cheap $800.00

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gporter

where did he buy them so cheap $800.00

Gary, I think Nick meant 6@ $150/month for a total of $900/month on a payment plan.

[gporter]

Ok. Does this one show water intrusion

[Nick Gromicko]

He told me they were $6K a piece or about $150/month financed.

[jmichalski]

The Palmer Wahl can be leased with 1/3 down up front (about $1400) and then 36 payments for the remaining $2800 - probably works out to $150 per month.... but the initial nut of $1400 is all up front.

[jmichalski]

Will, YES! Very helpful analysis. Wish I knew of them in time to save you a few $$$ - I just have been doing a bunch of research on my budget for next year, and potential purchases.

I guess the number of photos stored depends ont eh size of the SD card.... What are the 4 display modes for the FLIR?

I will check on the temp tile display. And training is a must - good point.

Thanks!

[jsiegfried]

A few points to ponder on IR technology from previous posts:

1. Quote..."Ok. Does this one show water intrusion"....Just to be clear, thermal imaging does not show moisture intrusion. Thermal imaging shows thermal patterns or temperature differences on the surface of the object you are scanning.

2. An IR camera is a tool that still requires a further evaluation, either by you or someone else. When scanning an object and you detect a thermal anomolie, you must further investigate the anomolie and try to determine the cause. You're taught in training to always back-up your suspicions first with a moisture meter and if the moisture meter fails to tell you anything, you then investigate further.

So why not just use a moisture meter? It will take you days to scan an entire house with a moisture meter. You could also use an infrared spot thermometer but that would take you months, if not longer to scan and document temperatures of every square centimeter in a house for comparison. Those comparison temperatures (the image you see on the camera) is what makes it very quick and possible to determine anomolies, which could be associated with leaks or moisture intrusion in the walls before it becomes visible on the surface.

3. A good contract for thermal imaging will spell out exactly what you will be scanning and what you wont be scanning. The contract should tell the client what the camera's limitations are. What the camera can and can not detect. The contract should also point out that destructive discovery will not be performed, unless you're going to get into that (check with your E & O provider). Since the majority of you/us will not be performing destructive discovery, the client needs to be aware up front that thermal imaging is not the final answer and that destructive discovery may be necessary. The client needs to be aware that if destructive discovery is performed, there is no guarantee that anything will be found once the wall, ceiling, etc., is opened up. The ultimate decision for destructive discovery is up to the client. It's a chance the client takes. It's not very reassuring, but 'usually' when you're called out or asked to do an IR inspection, they already know there's a problem.

4. Regarding the ghost post...This is a classic example of a thermal reflection. Unlike visible light where you need a highly reflective surface to see yourself, thermal reflections can bounce off of a huge variety of seemingly non reflective surfaces including painted surfaces.

5. Quote..." Most Realtors are going to HATE this tool....... It will be the DEAL KILLER TOOL! just watch..."....Agreed, but guess who the Realtors call for an inspection? If you try to market this to Realtors, you may be out of business before you're ready to. Market to the public by running an add in the yellow pages under plumbing..."Got leaks?". Market to plumbing companies, roofing companies, other home inspectors in your area, builders, lawyers specializing in construction related defects, water restoration companies, and mold remediation/inspection companies to name a few.

6. Quote..."I don't think this will ever be a big hit with inspectors. I'm assuming the use of this equipment will take our current level of liability as an inspector to the extreme."

I disagree and think the use of this equipment with a well written contract can and will lesson your liability. FREA covers the use of a thermal imaging camera provided it's used during the course of a home inspection. If the insurance carrier agrees to cover it, then they too must agree that it reduces the liability.

[William J. Decker]

All good points, Joe.

Please remember, training is the key. You have to understand how to use any tool you have.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by wdecker

All good points, Joe.

Please remember, training is the key. You have to understand how to use any tool you have.

It would be great if one of the suppliers at the Canadian Conference had a display of these . Roy Cooke

[Nick Gromicko]

The cameras are pretty easy to use, the result interpretation requires training.

Roy, we will have cameras at our convention for you to try out http://www.nachi.org/convention2007.htm