Help! Asbestos Pipe Insulation

[Steven C. Meyer]

Must wonder if he has watched to much 60 minutes, 20/20, or this old house?
Many, many homes have asbestos, and left alone, does not pose a problem.

If you need to work on the pipes, then a problem.

Encapuslate or remove completely?

One: encapsulate will, to a degree, confine the asbestos, however if you need to work on/replace the pipes, you will still have the asbestos problem to contend with.

His being worried, concerned, the best option for his "peace of mind" is to have it completely removed by a qualified, licensed haz mat company.

Two: Being that he also will being selling the house at some point in time, he will still have to disclose that there is asbestos, that has been encapsulated, which may/may not satisfy a buyer.

Best solution for John: Bite the bullet, remove it. He will have "peace of mind" and there will be no red flags/asbestos issues when he sells!!

[Christopher Mennella]

Whether or not a plumber comes across Asbestos on a daily basis or a weekly basis or a monthly basis (which is probably more like it) is not the issue.
There is a reason that an Asbestos abatement license is mandated by the EPA. A master plumbers is not the person to call for asbestos. If a pluber is going to give a referral he is just another middle man tht can be avoided.

Phone book, gov't website etc.

Respectfully,

Chris

[Christopher Mennella]

Whether or not a plumber comes across Asbestos on a daily basis or a weekly basis or a monthly basis (which is probably more like it) is not the issue.
There is a reason that an Asbestos abatement license is mandated by the EPA. A master plumbers is not the person to call for asbestos. If a pluber is going to give a referral he is just another middle man tht can be avoided.

Phone book, gov't website etc.

Respectfully,

Chris

[John Doem]

Thanks for the comments guys. Because the overall condition of the pipes is good, I'm hesitant on full removal. I've heard this can be worse than just leaving it alone.

I grew up in this home, it's my parents house, so I can't remember the condition of the pipes over the years. We've never had work done on the pipes and my parents don't seem to remember ever really disturbing the stuff (it's covered in cobwebs, not much time is spent in this area except for laundry or getting something out of storage).

With the photos I've attached, do you think the air quality is poor? I've read that the levels of household asbestos are typically low and aren't usually associated with asbestosis, etc. I'm going to have someone examine the pipes and get some recommendations.

[Jay Markanich]

John - A couple of things - check with epa.gov, but I learned a couple of things from that site:

1. First, (controversial) evidence suggests that the type of asbestos that predominates in most homes - chrysotile - generally is NOT associated with cancer, which is caused by OTHER types of asbestos. So have a lab tell you what you have.
2. EPA studies of homes that contained friable asbestos found that levels in the air were not significatnly higher than outdoor levels and only about 1/100th the level permitted in asbestos factories.
3. Nevertheless, EPA ordered a phase-out of asbestos in 1989. They have NEVER though ordered or recommended widespread removal of installed products containing asbestos, at least as of 2006.

I did an inspection for a lung surgeon who told me that asbestos is not that dangerous to non-smokers. I cannot confirm or refute what he said...

According to Popular Mechanics (November 1986, and quoted on EPA pamphlets) removal can be done as follows:
1. Purchase and use safety clothing and a respirator with a Type-H filter. Do NOT use a paper filter.
2. Spray soapy water over the asbestos.
3. Wrap it in plastic kitchen wrap.
4. Finally wrap it with a good-quality duct tape approved by U.L.
5. Paint the tape with acrylic-latex paint.
6. Dispose of safety clothes.

Popular Mechanics has been criticized for publishing these recommendations (probably by professional asbestos removal companies...). Makes it sound like you can do it yourself.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

That is what they would call the Glove Bag Method as explained here;

http://www.easc.noaa.gov/environ/nef...roced/w-18.htm

Marcel

[Steven C. Meyer]

JOHN

You really only have 2 options. Leave it alone or take it out!

As to removal causing more problems than it solves is pure bunk. If removed by a licensed haz mat company, there is no down side.

Many homes in California built in the 40's & 50's has some asbestos, being it water pipe wraps, ceiling "popcorn" texture, etc. Much of this has been removed over the years with no ill effects.

I sold my parents home 10 years ago. House had asbestos pipe wrap and asbestos heating ducts. (house built 1941) and was in good shape.
Buyers wanted asbestos removed as a condition of sale, I refused, as being left alone did not pose a problem.

As I suspected (and came to be) buyers wanted to re plumb the house with copper water lines and remove old gravity furnace with new A/C system.
In reality, they wanted me, as the seller, to pay for a portion of their remodel (removing the asbestos).

Sale went through, and it became their problem/expense.

You might be able to wrap it yourself, however removal should be done by the professionals.

If a future buyer questions who did the removal or wrap, you would need to disclose you did it, and that is going to be a real red flag to any buyer.
If you have it done by a professional, you have a paper trail, and any liability would rest on the removal company.


At this point, being that you are so undecided/worried, get a air quality test, if it comes back negative, leave it alone!!

Don't know how old you are, but if you have lived in the house all your life with no ill effects, what's the problem?????

[John Doem]

Originally Posted by jmarkanich

John - A couple of things - check with epa.gov, but I learned a couple of things from that site:

1. First, (controversial) evidence suggests that the type of asbestos that predominates in most homes - chrysotile - generally is NOT associated with cancer, which is caused by OTHER types of asbestos. So have a lab tell you what you have.
2. EPA studies of homes that contained friable asbestos found that levels in the air were not significatnly higher than outdoor levels and only about 1/100th the level permitted in asbestos factories.
3. Nevertheless, EPA ordered a phase-out of asbestos in 1989. They have NEVER though ordered or recommended widespread removal of installed products containing asbestos, at least as of 2006.

I did an inspection for a lung surgeon who told me that asbestos is not that dangerous to non-smokers. I cannot confirm or refute what he said...

According to Popular Mechanics (November 1986, and quoted on EPA pamphlets) removal can be done as follows:
1. Purchase and use safety clothing and a respirator with a Type-H filter. Do NOT use a paper filter.
2. Spray soapy water over the asbestos.
3. Wrap it in plastic kitchen wrap.
4. Finally wrap it with a good-quality duct tape approved by U.L.
5. Paint the tape with acrylic-latex paint.
6. Dispose of safety clothes.

Popular Mechanics has been criticized for publishing these recommendations (probably by professional asbestos removal companies...). Makes it sound like you can do it yourself.

Thank you for the input, I've read this elsewhere as well. It seems that asbestos related ilnesses are typically linked with those who worked with the stuff in high quanitites day in and day out with their jobs.

As no one in the house touches or disturbs these pipes, I'm actually hesitant to do anything with them. Although this seems like a DIY project, I would still rather leave it to a professional. I'll likely have someone come in the near future to examine and have a recommendation made.

Thanks again for all the input guys. This forum is a great resource.

[Steven C. Meyer]

Originally Posted by John Doem

Thank you for the input, I've read this elsewhere as well. It seems that asbestos related ilnesses are typically linked with those who worked with the stuff in high quanitites day in and day out with their jobs.

As no one in the house touches or disturbs these pipes, I'm actually hesitant to do anything with them. Although this seems like a DIY project, I would still rather leave it to a professional. I'll likely have someone come in the near future to examine and have a recommendation made.

Thanks again for all the input guys. This forum is a great resource.

Most of the asbestos related illinesses are a result of working around it daily, and goes back as far as the 40's and the ship building industry of WW II. Asbestos was used extensively in the building of war ships, and in a confined environment.

I don't know if any data is out there as to any person just living in a house with asbestos on pipes, etc. undesturbed, has had health problems. I would doubt it, asbestos only becomes a problem when disturbed and released in the air.

[George A. H. Luck]

Pasted from the Canadian Mortgage and Housing web site. ( Looks better in it's original form ! )


ABOUT YOUR HOUSE

Asbestos

What is asbestos?
Asbestos is a natural mineral with unusual qualities. It is strong enough to resist high temperatures, chemical attack and wear. A poor conductor, it insulates well against
heat and electricity. Asbestos is valuable in many applications because it has been difficult to find comparable substitute materials. For example, it is still an important component of brake lining and clutch facings

Asbestos crystals become long, flexible, silky fibres, so it can be made into a wide variety of forms. It can be spun into yarn, woven into cloth or braided into rope. Asbestos
can also be added to materials as diverse as cotton and cement.
This combination of properties gives asbestos performance capabilities that
are difficult to match.
What has asbestos been used for?
Asbestos has been used in hundreds of applications and products over the past 4,500 years. The ancient Greeks wove it into oil lamp wicks, funeral shrouds and ceremonial tablecloths.
During the 1800s, it insulated the hot engines, boilers and piping that powered the Industrial Revolution.
For half a century, until the 1980s, asbestos was used in office buildings, public buildings and schools. It insulated hot water heating systems, and was put into walls and ceilings
as insulation against fire and sound.
Asbestos has also been widely used in transportation and electrical appliances, frequently mixed with, and encased in, other materials.
Asbestos has also been found in many products around the house. It has been used in clapboard; shingles and felt for roofing; exterior siding; pipe and boiler covering; compounds and cement, such as caulk, putty, roof patching, furnace cement and driveway coating; wallboard; textured
and latex paints; acoustical ceiling tiles and plaster; vinyl floor tiles; appliance wiring; hair dryers;
irons and ironing board pads; flame-resistant aprons and electric blankets; and clay pottery. Loose-fill vermiculite insulation may contain traces of "amphibole" asbestos.

How has the use of asbestos changed?
When it became evident that regular exposure to asbestos on the job involved health risks, the public became more concerned about exposure to asbestos in offices and schools, and, eventually, about all asbestos products.
This concern has led to a dramatic decline in asbestos use since the early 1980s.The use of asbestos insulation in buildings and heating systems has virtually disappeared. Residential use, for roofing, flooring and appliances, continues to decrease.
While alternative products are being developed to replace asbestos, products sold today containing asbestos are regulated under the Hazardous Products Act. Asbestos can be used safely, and public concern has led to improved product design and manufacture. Asbestos is now
better encapsulated and sealed to reduce the escape of fibres.

.
What health problems are associated with exposure to asbestos?
Health Canada states that the asbestos content of a product does not indicate
its health risk. Asbestos poses health risks only when fibres are in the air that people breathe.
Asbestos fibres lodge in the lungs, causing scarring that can ultimately lead to severely impaired lung function (asbestosis) and cancers of the lungs or lung cavity.
Concern for the health of asbestos workers was expressed as long ago as the late 1800s.The risks became more evident in the late 1960s, when workers who had been heavily exposed 20 to 30 years earlier showed increased incidence of lung disease. Occupational exposure is now strictly
regulated by provincial governments.
When can asbestos be a problem in the home?
Today, far fewer products in the home contain asbestos. Current products that do contain the material are better made to withstand wear and use.
However, frequent or prolonged exposure to asbestos fibres may still bring health risks. This can happen with the release of fibres into the air when asbestos-containing products break down, either through deterioration as they age or when they are cut. People can put themselves at
risk—often without realizing it—if they do not take proper precautions when repairs or renovations disturb asbestos-containing materials. This can occur in a number of situations:
| Disturbing loose-fill vermiculite insulation which may contain asbestos | Removing deteriorating roofing shingles and siding containing asbestos, or tampering with roofing felt that contains asbestos | Ripping away old asbestos insulation from around a hot water tank | Sanding or scraping vinyl asbestos floor tiles | Breaking apart acoustical ceilings tiles containing asbestos
| Sanding plaster containing asbestos, or sanding or disturbing acoustical plaster that gives ceilings
and walls a soft, textured look | Sanding or scraping older water-based asbestos coatings such as
roofing compounds, spackling, sealants, paint, putty, caulking or drywall | Sawing, drilling or smoothing rough edges of new or old asbestos materials

How to minimize the asbestos risks in the home?
If you do not know if products in your home contain asbestos, have an experienced contractor inspect them. If there is asbestos, the best interim measure (unless the product is peeling or deteriorating) is to seal the surface temporarily so that fibres will not be released into indoor air.
If the product is already protected or isolated, simply leave it alone.
It is a complex and expensive matter to remove asbestos, and should be done by an experienced contractor.
When disturbing an asbestos product, maximum precautions must be taken to safeguard the workers and anybody else who may be nearby. Asbestos dust must remain within the work
area so that it cannot be breathed in by unprotected persons.
It is essential to take adequate precautions. Everybody who works with asbestos should always wear an approved face mask and gloves, along with protective clothing. Be sure to tape sleeve and trouser cuffs, and wash clothes separately after use. Keep the work area moist to keep dust and fibre particles from floating into the air. Isolate the work space.

Reduce the air pressure to prevent asbestos fibres from escaping from the work area, and filter the exhaust air. Dispose of all waste appropriately, according to the guidelines of your provincial department of the environment. Other removal methods may be warranted for special
conditions- consult an expert.
Vermiculite Insulation
Some vermiculite may contain asbestos. | Do not disturb loose-fill vermiculite insulation.
| Do not store items near vermiculite insulation, if the insulation can be disturbed.
| Do not allow children near loose fill vermiculite insulation. | If activities are planned that will
disturb vermiculite, consult a certified asbestos removal company.