Help with breaker.

[Michael Merino]

First off I want to tell you guys that I have passed the NACHI test, the SOP quiz, and completed the ethics obstacle course. I am on my way to becoming a member.

Now, I am doing a mock inspection for homework and I came across this and am a little lost. It is a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. I know it goes to a 240 volt receptacle. I am not able to see the the labeling on the insulation, but it appears to me to have an 8 AWG copper conductor. My question is; why an 8 AWG, shouldn't it be 12 AWG?

This is how I was going to report this on my mock report: "There is a 2 pole (240 volt circuit) 20 amp breaker that appears to have an 8 AWG conductor connected. I do not know the application of this circuit and am unable to determine if this is the proper size conductor gauge. I recommend it be checked by a qualified electrician."

[Marc D. Shunk]

What causes you to believe that this is 8 gauge, and why would that concern you? There can be reasons to be concernd, if this is in fact 8 gauge, but that doesn't seem clear at this point. Looks like #10 solid with type TW insulation, to me.

[Michael Merino]

I believe it is 8 gauge because it appears to be the same size as the wire above it that runs to the 2 pole 50 amp breaker. Although not visible on the pictures, I can just make out strands if I look at the right angle and shine a light where the wire enters the breaker. I have posted an uncropped pic below. Sorry, I should have provided this pic before. The only concern I can think of is that it may cause nusance trips of the breaker. And yes, I did report the presence of rust on the lugs.

[Jeffery M. McMahon]

Although the wire is over sized for the breaker the breaker will still trip the main thing to look for is wire undersized for the breaker as this will cause a fire hazard. Hope this helps. J. Marcus...

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by jmcmahon

Although the wire is over sized for the breaker the breaker will still trip the main thing to look for is wire undersized for the breaker as this will cause a fire hazard.

Well, that breaker's terminal is only rated for up to a #10, and it also appears that they may have cut strands to get it to fit. With the added perspective from the new picture, it does appear to be #8 and calling it out was righteous. The "fix" for any that are interested would be to pigtail on a short piece of #10 or #12 onto that existing #8, and terminate the smaller gauge pigtail on the breaker.

[rcooke]

Originally Posted by Michael Merino

First off I want to tell you guys that I have passed the NACHI test, the SOP quiz, and completed the ethics obstacle course. I am on my way to becoming a member.

Now, I am doing a mock inspection for homework and I came acroos this and am a little lost. It is a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. I know it goes to a 240 volt receptacle. I am not able to see the the labeling on the insulation, but it appears to me to have an 8 AWG copper conductor. My question is; why an 8 AWG, shouldn't it be 12 AWG?

This is how I was going to report this on my mock report: "There is a 2 pole (240 volt circuit) 20 amp breaker that appears to have an 8 AWG conductor connected. I do not know the application of this circuit and am unable to determine if this is the proper size conductor gauge. I recommend it be checked by a qualified electrician."

Good for you at least you ask the questions .
Many great people here to try and help .
Do not be shy and give as much information as you can.
Read, there are many many great posts with a lot of Info on this site.
Call if you need more help many do.
...Cookie

[Michael Merino]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

Well, that breaker's terminal is only rated for up to a #10, and it also appears that they may have cut strands to get it to fit. With the added perspective from the new picture, it does appear to be #8 and calling it out was righteous. The "fix" for any that are interested would be to pigtail on a short piece of #10 or #12 onto that existing #8, and terminate the smaller gauge pigtail on the breaker.

Does the 240 volt circuit have anything to do with the larger gauge? Does the application of the cicuit mean anything? I think I read somewhere that if it was for some sort of a heating appliance the gauge would need to be twice as thick as a normal wire.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Michael Merino

Does the 240 volt circuit have anything to do with the larger gauge? Does the application of the cicuit mean anything? I think I read somehwere that if it was for some sort of a heating appliance the gauge would need to be twice as thick as a normal wire.

Nope.

When examining circuits with wire that appears to be larger than the ampacity of the breaker would really need, the only thing you need concern yourself with is whether the breaker's terminal is rated for a wire of that gauge. There is a variety of reasons why a seemingly "too big" conductor may be terminated, and none of them are troublesome as long as the terminal can take a conductor that gauge.

[Michael Merino]

So I guess the only issue is nusance trips. I guess I reported it properly.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Michael Merino

So I guees the only issue is nusance trips.

No, not at all. Especially since you have no idea what's connected at the other end. What was the rating of the receptacle to which it was terminated?

[Michael Merino]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

No, not at all. Especially since you have no idea what's connected at the other end. What was the rating of the receptacle to which it was terminated?

It is a 240 volt 30 amp. On that note. HI's are not required to check every receptacle for the proper amp as compared to what is in the sevice panel, are they? I only know this one because it is only 1 foot away from the panel.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Michael Merino

All I can tell is that it is a 240 volt 30 amp. On that note. HI's are not required to check every receptacle for the proper amp as compared to what is in the sevice panel, are they?

Beats me.

[Michael Merino]

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[relliott]

Marc , you said you think they stripped some of the strands.
Are you guessing based on the electrical tape?

Also I ounce heard stranded is better .Any thoughts.
Mike that is a small amp circuit for a double.

[Michael Merino]

Originally Posted by relliott

Marc , you said you think they stripped some of the strands.
Are you guessing based on the electrical tape?

Also I ounce heard stranded is better .Any thoughts.
Mike that is a small amp circuit for a double.

Stranded is a better conductor, because it offers more surface area for the electrons to travel. And it is a double because it is a 240 v circuit.