Help with breaker.

[Jeff Merritt]

Michael, When you get you membership, come and visit a NACHI CHicagoland chapter meeting. http://www.nachichicago.org

[Jon Randolph]

Originally Posted by Michael Merino

1. The only concern I can think of is that it may cause nusance trips of the breaker....

2. Does the 240 volt circuit have anything to do with the larger gauge?

3. I think I read somewhere that if it was for some sort of a heating appliance the gauge would need to be twice as thick as a normal wire.

4. HI's are not required to check every receptacle for the proper amp as compared to what is in the sevice panel, are they?

1. The larger wire will not cause nuisance trips. The item connected to the other end may require more amperage that the breaker will allow but that is due to an undersized breaker, not an oversized conductor. Replacing the breaker with a larger breaker will take care of this, as long as it does not exceed the ampacity of the conductor. On that note, as was stated earlier, the terminal should be rated for the conductor size. If there were strands cut off of that conductor, it will no longer be able to conduct it's original intended amperage unless the end is cut off and the original size returned.

2. 120 or 240 has noting to do with wire size. Wires are sized for varying capabilities to conduct electricity. Larger wires will allow more amperage. Think of a conductor as a garden hose vs. ice maker tubing. You can not flow as much water (electrical amperage) through the tubing as you can through the hose. They both have the same pressure, but one can carry much more at one time than the other. Try to force too much water through the tubing and it will burst. Try to force too much electricity through a wire and it overheats, melts and catches the home on fire.

3. Electric heating units will require a larger conductor than a general use circuit, not because it is a heating unit, but because it requires more amperage. There should be a rating for the maximum size disconnect and/or amperage on the data plate. This is for sizing the disconnect, not the wire. The conductor can be larger than needed, but needs to be sized appropriately to carry the current rated.

4. The only way to check outlets for amperage is to perform load testing. This is way out of our scope. There are some inspectors who check the outlets for exact voltage/outlet, but not amperage.

I highly recommend that you get additional education on electrical prior to performing real inspections. This is the weakest area for most inspectors and I hope that you don't take offense, but it doesn't sound like you even know the basics. Lack of knowledge in this area and making improper recommendations will come back to haunt you. Remember that you will have electricians call on you to inspect their homes too. You should be able to at least understand the difference between voltage and amperage as well as conductor ampacity.

[Michael Merino]

Originally Posted by Jon Randolph

1. The larger wire will not cause nuisance trips. The item connected to the other end may require more amperage that the breaker will allow but that is due to an undersized breaker, not an oversized conductor. Replacing the breaker with a larger breaker will take care of this, as long as it does not exceed the ampacity of the conductor. On that note, as was stated earlier, the terminal should be rated for the conductor size. If there were strands cut off of that conductor, it will no longer be able to conduct it's original intended amperage unless the end is cut off and the original size returned.

2. 120 or 240 has noting to do with wire size. Wires are sized for varying capabilities to conduct electricity. Larger wires will allow more amperage. Think of a conductor as a garden hose vs. ice maker tubing. You can not flow as much water (electrical amperage) through the tubing as you can through the hose. They both have the same pressure, but one can carry much more at one time than the other. Try to force too much water through the tubing and it will burst. Try to force too much electricity through a wire and it overheats, melts and catches the home on fire.

3. Electric heating units will require a larger conductor than a general use circuit, not because it is a heating unit, but because it requires more amperage. There should be a rating for the maximum size disconnect and/or amperage on the data plate. This is for sizing the disconnect, not the wire. The conductor can be larger than needed, but needs to be sized appropriately to carry the current rated.

4. The only way to check outlets for amperage is to perform load testing. This is way out of our scope. There are some inspectors who check the outlets for exact voltage/outlet, but not amperage.

I highly recommend that you get additional education on electrical prior to performing real inspections. This is the weakest area for most inspectors and I hope that you don't take offense, but it doesn't sound like you even know the basics. Lack of knowledge in this area and making improper recommendations will come back to haunt you. Remember that you will have electricians call on you to inspect their homes too. You should be able to at least understand the difference between voltage and amperage as well as conductor ampacity.

Thanks for the information. As far as education, I am currently taking classes and we just started electrical. I do know the basics, but, as with everything else there are exceptions to the rules. And I do not believe that every exception can be taught or covered in a classroom setting. I posted this so that I could get additional education and take advantage of the years of experience on this site.

Thank you very much for the input and I will heed your suggestions.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by relliott

Marc , you said you think they stripped some of the strands.
Are you guessing based on the electrical tape?

It was more of an educated guess based on the presence of the tape to "disguise" what they had done, and based on what I think it would take to get a #8 under a captured square washer. The general rule is that any time you see tape on wires, be suspicious. There are very darned few reasons to use tape on a residential wiring installation.

[relliott]

Good deduction.
Always love the detective part of this job.