Help with an inspection question

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by Ann P. Simth

Home was built 40 years ago - 1967

Hmmmmmmmm. Built in 1967 would lead me to believe tin-clad copper rather than aluminum.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by rray

Hmmmmmmmm. Built in 1967 would lead me to believe tin-clad copper rather than aluminum.

I say used in House wiring was from the late 1960's till about 1978 .
Tinned Copper was used mainly on Knob and tube to make soldering easier.
I did use both .
They did use for a short time stranded plated copper so that joints could be made and soldered via a western Union .
I do not think there are that many around any more who did learn how to make a solder splice if starnded cable .
Never did one except in trade school .
Have no idea why they taught that.
Roy Cooke

[jmichalski]

Originally Posted by rcooke

How do we know the inspector missed it .
I try to never make long distance decisions.
Remember there are three sides to every story yours, mine, and the truth .
This being an open forum I think we should just be a little carefull what we say .
It could get to a court case and our info could end up drawing one of us into court on just a simple post.

Roy Cooke

I am taking the facts as they are presented, in this post. The report says copper wiring. The poster has identified aluminum wiring present.

To me - that means he missed it. Given only those facts, it is either an error or an omission.

If there are other facts, they are not present here, so I am using the eveidence that has been presented.

Yes, there may be more to the story - however, the poster asked a question based on specific statemetns and I am answering with respect to those statements.

[whandley]

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) announced today that Tyco Electronics Corp., of Harrisburg, Pa., has agreed to continue offering the COPALUM connector repair system until at least 2005 for homes with aluminum wiring. The COPALUM repair system has benefited tens of thousands of consumers by reducing the risks of dangerous overheating and fire that can be caused by failing aluminum wiring connections. It is estimated that 2 million homes were built with aluminum wire between 1965 and 1973.

[whandley]

Now Joe,

We have way to little information to have a bed side manner in this case, period!

What if the panel where inaccessible? What if the inspector removed the cover of a random outlet that had been pig tailed with copper or actually wired with copper?

Our inspections after all do have access limitations, we don't have crystal balls and or x-ray vision. I'm never in favor of advising someone to contact an attorney or bring action against anyone with as little imformation as we have in this case. In my humble opinion, it is not appropriate, prudent and or beneficial to the client at this particular juncture.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Now lets step back and think about this, Who is the poster .
Is it a legitimate post.
Could it be some one trying to set up one of our Home Inspectors .
Could it be some one trying to set Up NACHI and then show what decisions we make .
Sorry but we have no idea who, where, or what, we could be doing to our selves.
We have a fantastic Group and a Great BB and I sure would not like to see one of our members set up or have this BB damaged from some posts and decisions made on no idea what the truth is .
. Please do just look at this from the first and see what we have .
I hope many saw what a couple of people did do to the Canadian site .
A year ago it was almost destroyed and again some of the same people did it this year .
Many complained but you could be falling into the same trap with the same people who want nothing better then to destroy NACHI.
Yes I do know who three of them are in this latest episode .
Yes it could be the same people doing it here.
They will do what ever they can to destroy NACHI and the worst is one is an American who feeds on their BS and adds to it
.
Roy Cooke.... A proud NACHI Member

[jmichalski]

Originally Posted by whandley

Now Joe,

We have way to little information to have a bed side manner in this case, period!

What if the panel where inaccessible? What if the inspector removed the cover of a random outlet that had been pig tailed with copper or actually wired with copper?

Our inspections after all do have access limitations, we don't have crystal balls and or x-ray vision. I'm never in favor of advising someone to contact an attorney or bring action against anyone with as little imformation as we have in this case. In my humble opinion, it is not appropriate, prudent and or beneficial to the client at this particular juncture.

If the panel were inaccessible the report would not have indicated any type of wiring as it is unknown (or would have noted it as inaccessible). Listing it as copper without any evidence at all, is an Error.

Removing an outlet cover and identifying pig tailed copper is a possibility, but extarpolating that to determine the type of wiring used throughout the home is reckless (since it is a far less than representative sample of the wiring), and is also an Error.

I advise anyone who believes that there is an issue to contact the inspector (which I have recommended), review their agreement (which I did), proceed accordingly (also did that) and contacting an attorney.

In many cases, the client believes they are limited by the limitation of liability clause which may not be valid in their state. In other cases, the client can wind up agreeing to an agreement that is not in their best interest, and hampers their ability to seek justifiable compensation.

Contacting an attorney is a very responsible thing to recommend, for the client as well as the inspector.

[Russel Ray]

Although I think all of us would like to help (except, perhaps, JB), we've got waaaaaaaaaaaay too little information to do anything other than say, "Contact the home inspector first." If that's been done, and there is disagreement, then one can move on to the next step of trying to figure out what to do.

The home inspector put his opinion in writing; did the handyman put his opinion in writing?

I'm not too thrilled about a handyman providing electrical information, either, although I realize that this was a small, handyman-type job and that some handymen are also licensed electricians and licensed plumbers.

[Ann P. Simth]

Thank you all for your responses -

Let me first assure you - that this is an real situation and a honest inquiry. I registered with you because I felt there would be more valid information from a group of professionals offering the same service - versus a variety of blogs ranting about poor home inspections. I also recognize that you can't tell me what to do under the circumstances - but perhaps offer a reasonable line of action from this point forward. Many of you have and I appreciate the candor - I'm sorry if I've opened a can of worms.

I'm sure it isn't easy to hear about a home inspection issue. In fact I am amazed at your level of professionalism. Your group answered my questions honestly - yes with trepidation - because you can't know all the particulars. In all honestly this was a shot in the dark - I didn't really expect a response - or a discussion - since in this day and age of so much unjustified ligitation - there almost always seems to be a "circle the wagons" type of mentally. Thank you.

What I have posted are the honest facts - My father was an electrician - and a volunteer fireman for 40 years - It is that history and knowledge about house fires and wiring that makes this issue so important to me. My first search on the internet found evidence that insurance companies in some areas are refusing to underright homes with aluminum wiring. In addition to that - there is the question of long term viability of the home's value. Neither of these issues exist presently - but they could raise their ugly heads at any point in the future. That notwithstanding - the crux of the issue is - what to do now. Your recommendations reflect a plan of action that I agree with and that I feel is the most reasonable.

Again - I appreciate the time, energy and promptness of responses - in spite of the angst this line of questioning has clearly caused some of your members.

Thanks again. Ann

[Michael R. Boyett]

Ann...this is a common course for a controversial thread to take. Please don't feel you've done anything wrong here....this is the way this board works. Some of us have even gotten a little used to it. I do agree with the line of advice that says contact the inspector and see if he can explain his findings and report to you satisfactorily.

[whandley]

Hey Ann;

I've owned a rental property in Irvine, CA for several years now which has aluminum wiring. Over the years I've had State Farm, Farmers and now Mercury insure the property. Not one time has aluminum wiring been an issue. They've asked about wood roofing, knob and tube wiring, galvanized plumbing and the presence of large trees overhanging the structure.

I get the feeling someone has really scared you regarding aluminum wiring. Again, here in california, homes with aluminum wiring are bought and sold for in some cases millions of dollars everyday.

Is aluminum wiring a valid concern?, probably. Is it a reason to not purchase a property?, unlikely.

[bandag]

Ann, Can you tell us what state you are in?

[tneumann]

Since it is a national company -

Whew.....

[David A. Andersen]

Call your Inspector.

My responce/question is where do you do from here with the Alu Wire?

What do you expect anyone to do about it?

I would like to call your attention to one solution before you file suit for $200k to re-wire the whole house.

The problem with Alu wiring occurs most often where it is spliced/connected to a receptacle fixture. The dissimilar metals and where there is potential for a loose connection (which creates heat and further resistance and oxidation).

Insurance companies have agreed that the appropriate mitigation is to attach a copper pigtail to the alu wiring where it is connected to plugs, switches, fixtures and breakers.

If you intend to add to and subsequently overload the branch circuit wiring, you may "cause" the wiring in the wall to become a problem and should refrain from this.

It does not sound that you have a current problem (just a broken light fixture). There are houses that still have and are allowed to use existing knob-n-tube wiring, which can be a bigger problem than you have but is still allowed to exist in many locations.

Can you show that you were damaged by buying into this house because of the wiring, when the entire subdivision was built this way?

Lawyers and court cost money.
Law suits are not to prove someone wrong, but to agree on a settlement price.
The more you push it in court, the more it will cost you and the Inspector to the point where someone will agree to a settlement amount.
Try to reach an agreement as soon a possible, you may get more in the long run. Remember, you don't get attorney costs in every case when you settle, so the more you spend of the Inspectors money the less you are likely to get.

Remember, contact the Inspector first.
If the Inspector saw copper wiring (which was the only accessible wire to see) he may not be wrong in his reporting. There may be Alu wire in the wall or at the light fixtures but copper in the service panel. HI's are not required to remove light fixtures to inspect wiring.

[Ann P. Simth]

Louisiana - which instituted a mandated licensing department in 1999 -