Hey Lewis, how is this not a free speech message board?

[dharris]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Thanks for the spell check Dan. I'll ask you the same question since Lewis won't answer it. Who was kicked out for excersssisssing their free speech rights?

Me.
If I didn't say thanks before , THANKS, it was the best thing that happened to contribute to the success of my business,

I'll let the other ones answer for themselves if they choose to do so.

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Peter;

Do you think he might need our help?

Marcel

Marcel, I do in fact, I wish he would let go of his anger and come back to NACHI again.

[Nick Gromicko]

Dan, incorrect.

You were removed at the time for violating http://www.nachi.org/coe

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Lewis, I checked into this for you as I said I would. I can find no member who was ever kicked out for excersising his free speech rights. Are you claiming that you were?

As for members here who made some less than tasteful jokes (some made by me) about the owner of the for-profit company who runs the Minneapolis association who is also a public figure by virtue of her title there, I seriously doubt that you would consider those comments in the same league as her association's public disparagment of our members in Pennsylvania, where the leadership of her organization in that state published articles in real estate magazines (note: much of our members work comes from real estate agents) claiming that we were an illegal association and that members of our association were operating illegally... in other words criminals.

Surely you would agree that some tasteless jokes on our own message board aren't in the same category of conspiring to destroy other inspector's businesses through published articles in real estate magazines in towns where our members have to put food on the table. Do you not agree?

Anyway... www.nachi.org/pascum.htm

I do agree with you on that, to a point Nick, but it is also within the rights of others to have found your "humor" disgusting and to voice out objections, which I did. As I said after I objected and started getting the F*** You messages again I decided to share your humor with others., and as I posted I still believe that it was a new low for Nachi leadership.

Look at Bushart's post on why I was kicked out, read the quotes of mine he posted and tell me how they were anymore harmful to Nachi than yours. Mine included arguments about whether you had really won a great victory against NAHI and that according to the first agreement ALL MEMBERS would be required change their logos and marketing to InterNachi, and that in essence Nachi had ceased to exist except on paper work, it appears that I was right, which made it harmful to Nachi's image.

There was an implied accusation of me stalking another member, we all know who, and the list of those who have been accused at one time or another would be very long in deed and would include Bushart and J. Farsetta., Roy Cooke, RR, and many others.

I was kicked out supposedly, for violating the COE by making remarks harmful to Nachi, even though those remarks were true, it's either that or I was kicked out for reposting what you and others had said on a public message board, I didn't make the embarrassing "jokes", you did.

Yes I'm claiming that I was kicked out for exercising my free speech rights, I also understand that this is your Message Board and you and your "appointee's decide what free speech comprises, it seems free speech here consists of agreeing with all InterNachi policies and the opinions of your ESOP Committee.

I admit that there aren't many of your policies I am a fan of and I voiced my opinion of them. I did so with the intent of seeing just what Bushart would do, he had threatened me many times, along with others, with expulsion for statements that were made and opinions that we had, mostly over the subject of Washington State SPI Licensing, too bad Wendy chose the wrong side to listen to.

I agree with Bushart in that I violated the COE as he interpreted it, but I also exercised my free speech by arguing against many of your policies, and especially Bushart's opinions and legal interpretations.

Its all water under the bridge, I'm happy with the outcome, but in the end I was kicked out for being argumentative, which is free speech.

[Nick Gromicko]

Oh, I disagree. But instead of arguing your case all over... let me give all a stat which should dispel your claim that there is some sort of anti-American moderation going on and that those who disagree get kicked out or whatever.

Here is the stat that is pretty tough to go around. For whatever reason... there have only been 5 members in the entire history of our association that have been asked to leave. None have been asked to leave for expressing their opinions within the COE but lets say for argument that we goofed... and after some 400,000 posts and many years of message board operation, we lost our freakin' minds and kicked out 5 members because of their opinions. That's a damn near perfect free-speech record. The real truth is that we have an actual perfect record as no one has been kicked out for voicing, even strongly voicing an opinion. All 5 have been asked to return with no questions asked. 1 has accepted.

Now just so you don't think I'm a one-stat-wonder... I'll give you one more that destroys your contention. If we were so hung up on your opinion that we kicked you out over it... why didn't we delete that opinion? We didn't because your opinion was not the issue. Every post you've ever made here is still here.

Hate to pound a finishing nail with a sledge hammer... but you can't win this won.

Now, I'm personally offering to pay for your membership to rejoin. Will you accept my personal offer? (believe me, I'm going to catch **** for this post 10 seconds after I make it).

[dharris]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Dan, incorrect.

You were removed at the time for violating http://www.nachi.org/coe

If that's the case, why did you try to defend me by attempting to over rule the decision made by the coe enforcers at that time...

[Nick Gromicko]

Dan, what do you and Lewis play chess or what? If I don't answer I lose the argument to you publicly, if I do answer, my own guys kill me by morning.

What do you suggest I do?

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Dan, incorrect.

You were removed at the time for violating http://www.nachi.org/coe

When someone argues against any of your policies or with your appointees, who happen to be in charge of interpreting your COE, most people will end up getting kicked out for violating it. Saying that CMI is a farce because it is possible for a Master designee to never have performed an inspection is the truth, but posting it may be interpreted by your appointees as being in violation of the COE couldn't it? How does a member object or argue when the people they are arguing with are in charge of the rule book?

[dharris]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Dan, what do you and Lewis play chess or what? If I don't answer I lose the argument to you publicly, if I do answer, my own guys kill me by morning.

What do you suggest I do?

I don't know what to say, I guess the best advise I have is, down a bottle of tequiala tonite and figure it out tormorrow.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Now, I'm personally offering to pay for your membership to rejoin. Will you accept my personal offer? (believe me, I'm going to catch **** for this post 10 seconds after I make it).

Nice offer Nick.

[Nick Gromicko]

Dan, I prefer Gin. I'll start now.

Lewis, you make 2 arguments. Let's kill the CMI one first. We already agreed that if we saw CMIs applicants coming in with 1,000 hours of CE and no experience, we would change the application rules to require a minimum in each category. We were worried we would see it in Texas where it already takes 440 hours just to get a license. The problem with your argument is that like Ununseptium (look it up), it can exist theoretically, but we haven't found it. There has never been a CMI applicant with zero experience.

We did find the your Ununseptium's inverse. And even better, those current applicants with zero formal education yet over 1,000 inspections under their belt, (in an industry where the average inspector has less then 200 inspections under his belt) all had over 2,000 inspections under their belt. In this case, we didn't view the lack of experience as harshly as the lack of formal education and so therefore accepted their applications as per the current requirements.

Anyway, I think we were correct in our thinking on CMI. www.certifiedmasterinspector.org After 3 years and thousands of posts arguing about it, I'm sure we're at least fairly correct in our thinking.

As for your other argument, you are incorrect. You can voice almost any comment you want about CMI without violating www.nachi.org/coe.htm as CMI is a separate body not protected by our COE.

My opinions only, your mileage may vary.

[Joe Farsetta]

Dan was invited back, but couldnt help himself, and was once again removed.

If being an absolute a-hole was a capital crime, Lewis would be on death row.

Your posts still exist on this message board.

Now, the genius Lewis thiks CMI is a farce. Too bad really.

Do we miss either as members? I certainly do not. Neither have offered a lick of help to any other member.

Dan has stalked this message board for years, like a malevolent poltergeist. Like the occasional creaking door, we humor him. I'm told that he is a really nice guy, and had hoped to meet him when I was in Arizona last year... but that's Dan. Really dont have much bad to say about him.

Lewis, on the other hand, had a completely different agena here at NACHI. As I recall, Lewis had a particular bent against NACHI members with regard to WDI inspections.

But, he was dismissed for other reasons I cant recall. Ironically, the apparent target of his wrath has disappeared, as many of us suspected she would. Too bad, really, that Lewis just couldnt chill out.

I guess it was not in his nature to do so.

Now, he has turned up like a bad penny. What is a bad penny, anyway?

[Nick Gromicko]

Furthermore Lewis, nothing you've said has been able to overcome post #20.

Again, surely if your voiced opinions were such a problem that we removed you over them.... why wouldn't we remove the opinions themselves. We didn't, because they aren't a problem for us.

[Joseph T. Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Now, I'm personally offering to pay for your membership to rejoin. Will you accept my personal offer? (believe me, I'm going to catch **** for this post 10 seconds after I make it).

Because Lewis is unwilling to become part of the solution any reconciliation between him & NACHI would have to be deemed rocky and destined for failure. Try as you might, Lewis is a lot like Peck, Chad, Harris and the others who have gone before him, in that they are unable to focus on the benefits of membership because that are caught up the day to day imperfections that beseech us all.

Regardless of what could be worked out tonight we will continue to make mistakes in the future and guys like this will never be satisfied; I suggest that you move on and don't take it personal.

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Oh, I disagree. But instead of arguing your case all over... let me give all a stat which should dispel your claim that there is some sort of anti-American moderation going on and that those who disagree get kicked out or whatever.

Here is the stat that is pretty tough to go around. For whatever reason... there have only been 5 members in the entire history of our association that have been asked to leave. None have been asked to leave for expressing their opinions within the COE but lets say for argument that we goofed... and after some 400,000 posts and many years of message board operation, we lost our freakin' minds and kicked out 5 members because of their opinions. That's a damn near perfect free-speech record. The real truth is that we have an actual perfect record as no one has been kicked out for voicing, even strongly voicing an opinion. All 5 have been asked to return with no questions asked. 1 has accepted.

Now just so you don't think I'm a one-stat-wonder... I'll give you one more that destroys your contention. If we were so hung up on your opinion that we kicked you out over it... why didn't we delete that opinion? We didn't because your opinion was not the issue. Every post you've ever made here is still here.

Hate to pound a finishing nail with a sledge hammer... but you can't win this won.

Now, I'm personally offering to pay for your membership to rejoin. Will you accept my personal offer? (believe me, I'm going to catch **** for this post 10 seconds after I make it).

Nick, your stats mean little, seeing as it would be pretty hard to justify kicking a member out for disagreeing, at least to many of your members., but like I stated the COE is there to justify almost anything or any reason to get rid of someone. I agree, as I said before, I violated the COE, yet almost every statement that I had made that Bushart gave for kicking me out turned out to be correct didn't it? When being right is a violation of your COE then something is wrong.

My membership was paid through June 08' I believe, so there wouldn't be any need for you to pay for my reinstatement. Coming back wouldn't change my opinion of the people you have placed in charge of your membership or of Certifications like CMI, or of Bushart's definition of substantial when it comes to the SOP or stop my arguments for higher standards including proctored exams. Too many of your appointees oppose any higher standards, and too many of your designations and programs bother me ethically, as I have often argued. Bushart and the boys can remain happy in their little circle, it doesn't seem that there are many left to oppose them, unless they're hiding in the members only forum.

Thanks for the offer Nick, but no thanks I like it where I'm at aand I wouldn't want you to upset Bushart and his boys.