inspecting churches

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by ccbrands1

any thoughts on whether this would be considered commercial?

I would call it commercial. Churches are businesses. If we taxed them like we should, we could pay off America's $6 trillion debt on April 16.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by rray

I would call it commercial. Churches are businesses. If we taxed them like we should, we could pay off America's $6 trillion debt on April 16.

That's the biggest load of ***** I have ever heard.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mlarson

That's the biggest load of ***** I have ever heard.

I might agree with you if I didn't see so many BMW 5's and 7's parked in the church minister reserved parking spaces. I've even gone by their houses (remember, I have access to public records through Realist) to see what kind of house they owned. Uh-huh. I really love the ministers who owns one real nice multimillion dollar house and 10 condominiums down in Fashion Valley. Uh-huh. Those good ol' church tithes don't do as much work "for the Lord" as many are led to believe. Something's wrong here in America.

[ccbrands1]

Originally Posted by ccbrands1

if i recall, the time i drove by, I saw:

2 meters
2 mast heads...both with 3 conductors each

am i correct that this would indicate 2 separate 120/240 single phase services?

anybody???

thanks for everyone's help

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by rray

.... Something's wrong here in America.

On this we can agree Russel. And I will not defend the shyster examples you present. But even if we taxed all churches do yo useriously think it would pay off the national debt in one year. Do the math if you please.

6,000,000,000,000 / 300,000 = 20 million per church.

(numbers are appx.)

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by ccbrands1

anybody???

thanks for everyone's help

Yes, that would be my understanding a well. Hopefully one of "experts" will also answer.

[ccbrands1]

first and foremost, i want to provide the BEST service to my client on this.

churches are not something that sell alot around here, so finding an inspector that's very knowledgeable about churches may be few and far between here.

although i dont like it, i feel my report would have to be HEAVILY disclaimed?
no?

Here are my plans for this property:

Roofing - hire contractor ( there are roofing issues throughout, so deferring the whole thing to a roofer is likely anyway) should i still bother hiring a roofing contractor?

HVAC - hire contractor - huge steam boiler and 2 roof AC units ( AC would not be ran due to outside temps )

ELECTRICAL - go it alone ( although it's not 3 phase, I imagine there are numerous panels throughout the 8500 sq ft ) should I hire an electrician for this reason alone?

I'll be able to do the rest.

Any thoughts on this plan?
Yeas or Naes?

also, how and what info do you request from the contractors?

do you just get the same info from them that you would put on the report, or is there a different format i'd receive from them?

[wsiegel]

Personally, I would sub out the roof, electrical, HVAC, and plumbing (there may be cast iron waste pipes). I would also disclaim and not inpsect the commercial kitchen. Dont forget to disclaim any environmental issues. As for pricing, I would get with my subs first to determine what they will charge, and then add in what I think I should be charging on top of that. From the looks of it, that inspection could take two days, with the subs, so charge accordingly. Whatever you do, do not shor change yourself.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mlarson

On this we can agree Russel. And I will not defend the shyster examples you present. But even if we taxed all churches do yo useriously think it would pay off the national debt in one year. Do the math if you please.

6,000,000,000,000 / 300,000 = 20 million per church.

(numbers are appx.)

Yes, I do, only because both conservative and liberal economists say we could. When conservatives and liberals agree, it must be right.

Your fallacy is thinking that each church would pay the same amount in taxes. First Baptist in Houston, Second Baptist in Houston, and First Presbyterian are capable of paying, oh, a billion or so each. A couple here in the same state. Not to mention Crystal Cathedral and our newest, greatest preacher, Joel what's-his'name.

Many churches in many states, perhaps all churches in all states, are exempt from property taxes. That right there explains a lot. Society has to pay for all the traffic problems, extra policeman directing traffic on Sundays (overtime pay), etc., yet they pay no property taxes to support those services. Uh-huh. Yep, something is seriously wrong here in America. The Founding Fathers are have probably turned over in their grave many, many times with this religious theocracy that the nation keeps trying to turn itself into. Thankfully, we have the ACLU keeping an eye on things.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by rray

Society has to pay for all the traffic problems, extra policeman directing traffic on Sundays (overtime pay), etc., yet they pay no property taxes to support those services. Uh-huh. Yep, something is seriously wrong here in America. The Founding Fathers are have probably turned over in their grave many, many times with this religious theocracy that the nation keeps trying to turn itself into.

Society includes the people who are attending the services. The founding fathers would indeed be shocked--the country is MUCH MUCH MUCH less religious than it was in their time. (Don't go quoting Jefferson to me...I realize he was a heritic.)

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Society includes the people who are attending the services. The founding fathers would indeed be shocked--the country is MUCH MUCH MUCH less religious than it was in their time. (Don't go quoting Jefferson to me...I realize he was a heritic.)

The founding fathers were trying to escape from a theocracy known as the Church of England. They were smart in separating religion from government; they are two separate entities. If one wants a religious theocracy, one should move, perhaps, to Iran or Afghanistan.

[Michael Larson]

Uh hem, we are drifting quite far off topic but you say you enjoy thread drift.

Russel, I would enjoy reading something from these economists you mentioned. Do you have any names?

No fallacy at all. I chose to deal with averages because that information is available. 20 million would be impossible for the vast majority of churches and likely all but an extreme minority. If you have better numbers please present them so we can all learn.

Many think churches are a positive influence on society. I wonder what the cost to society would be in there absence?

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by rray

The founding fathers were trying to escape from a theocracy known as the Church of England. They were smart in separating religion from government; they are two separate entities. If one wants a religious theocracy, one should move, perhaps, to Iran or Afghanistan.

Russel, there where a number of state churches early on in this country. I for one would not support a theocracy and you have little to fear along these lines.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Uh hem, we are drifting quite far off topic but you say you enjoy thread drift.

Russel, I would enjoy reading something from these economists you mentioned. Do you have any names?

No fallacy at all. I chose to deal with averages because that information is available. 20 million would be impossible for the vast majority of churches and likely all but an extreme minority. If you have better numbers please present them so we can all learn.

Many think churches are a positive influence on society. I wonder what the cost to society would be in there absence?

Go read the newspaper records from 1976 through to the present. Both Republican and Democrat economists have suggested taxing churches, but, of course, the powerful church lobby and the religious political extremist fanatic fundamentalist congresspeople put an end to such thinking, but it comes up every time Congress has to pass legislation increasing the legal trade deficit.

Many also think churches have a severe negative influence on society. Personally, I'm in the John Lennon crowd: Imagine there's no religion.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Russel, there where a number of state churches early on in this country.

Key words there are "early on in this country." That's one of the many reasons why there was a revolution. The Founding Fathers didn't want state churches involved in government. Considering that Columbus got here ca. 1492, there's about 510 years of history here.

Originally Posted by mlarson

I for one would not support a theocracy and you have little to fear along these lines.

Good.