Inspecting condos / townhomes

[Thomas Bloore]

I am a newbie to the Inspection world. I have done several 'house' inspections.
I meet with a client/buyers to a condo ,at that time they were unsure of the 'association' coverage for the condo. The sellers were unavailable to ask. Do I go ahead and inspect it as a house or do I assume the 'association' covers all exterior, IE: roof, grading issues, garage door, etc? Would it be better to document the exterior or " don't even go there"?
Help, Tom Bloore

[Linas I. Dapkus]

Originally Posted by tbloore

I am a newbie to the Inspection world. I have done several 'house' inspections.
I meet with a client/buyers to a condo ,at that time they were unsure of the 'association' coverage for the condo. The sellers were unavailable to ask. Do I go ahead and inspect it as a house or do I assume the 'association' covers all exterior, IE: roof, grading issues, garage door, etc? Would it be better to document the exterior or " don't even go there"?
Help, Tom Bloore

Try this:

For Condominiums and Townhomes with Common Areas:
Common Areas ( eg., walls, foundation, roof, garage, laundry, etc ), shared by more than one unit, Common Mechanical Systems ( eg., water heater, plumbing, etc. ), used by more than one unit,and areas typically under the jurisdiction of the Homeowners Association ( eg., exterior grounds, exterior structure, and exterior systems were not inspected.

[William J. Decker]

I still comment on the exterior and such, but not as much as I would in a regular home inspection and usually only if I see a defect. The Realtor usually replys, "Oh, you don't have to do that. That is an association issues." I reply, "Yes, and who pays the assesments to the association? My client?".

Hope this helps;

[Jeff Merritt]

I always look at exterior, and roof, if I am not allowed on roof I mark report as acceess denied, afterall you client is buying a % of the building.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by jmerritt1

I always look at exterior, and roof, if I am not allowed on roof I mark report as acceess denied, afterall you client is buying a % of the building.

Generally on a condo the client buys the inside of the building.
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[William E. Siegel]

Always try and find out who is responsible for the roof. With many townhome association, the homewoner is responsible for his own roof, not the association. This can also apply to exterior siding.

[W. Michael Chris]

I will inspect the exterior just as if it's a free standing home, in several condo communities the exterior may or may not be maintained by an association . . . and besides, I want my client to know the condition both outside and in.
My 2 cents worth.

[Linas I. Dapkus]

Originally Posted by wdecker

I still comment on the exterior and such, but not as much as I would in a regular home inspection and usually only if I see a defect. The Realtor usually replys, "Oh, you don't have to do that. That is an association issues." I reply, "Yes, and who pays the assesments to the association? My client?".

Hope this helps;

I recently did an inspection (in Oak Brook) and the townhome owner was responsible for a certain amount of roof repairs according to his association contract!

[Jae Williams]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Generally on a condo the client buys the inside of the building.
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But what happens outside doesn't always stay outside. The roof condition may very well affect the interior condition -- and the client just might like to know about any visible problems. The client could then be prepared to discuss any such problems with the Association. Maybe a shingle blew off in last week's storm and the HOA was not yet aware of it...you look good, the buyer is happy and the Association gets the roof fixed.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Generally on a condo the client buys the inside of the building.
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...and a percentage of the liability for the outside items.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by lkage

...and a percentage of the liability for the outside items.

Correct. But once you go down the road of inspecting things out side the building envelope for the "protection of the client" where does one draw the line?

Parking lot? Condo roof four buildings over? Communal pool? Lake? Elevator? Rec room? Laundry facilities?

My point being, and I am sure I used the word GENERALLY, that with the traditional use of the term condo means client owns the inside of the building. Check out what condo insurance Generally covers.
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[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by wsiegel

Always try and find out who is responsible for the roof. With many townhome association, the homewoner is responsible for his own roof, not the association. This can also apply to exterior siding.

Generally, if the homeowner is responsible for the roof, it's probably a PUD rather than a condominium. That's one of the reasons why I always pull the public records and the MLS listing sheet. In my area, they will show the type of development (single family, condominium, PUD, 2-4, multi, office, industrial, etc.), the amount of the homeowner's fees, and what those fees cover. It's also not difficult to determine simply by looking at the monthly HOA fees. I've generally found that the dividing line (a gray line, but one nonetheless) is right at around $250 per month. Anything less usually means the homeowner gets building maintenance. Anything more means the HOA gets building maintenance.

HOA's here are very powerful, and I don't know of a single inspector in my area who inspects anything on the outside unless it's a PUD. Going up against an HOA is not a pleasant experience here in California. There was some legislation passed last year that attempted to reign in the power of the HOA's in this state, but it was severely watered down by the HOA lobby during the process. I think all it basically says is that an HOA cannot foreclose on your property if you owe less than $2,500. It resulted from a high-profile attorney in Rancho Santa Fe losing his $6.5 million home to the HOA because he owed $2,000 in fines to the HOA for having a brick mailbox instead of a stucco mailbox, and refusing to change the style of his mailbox.

While I won't ignore exterior problems, I would never, ever put exterior problems in writing in my report. I will, however, take my Client off to the side and say, "See that huge crack in the wall...."

Back in Spring 2004, I inspected a condo that had a wood shake roof, as did the whole complex. This was after the disastrous fires of October 2003 that burned half the county. Virtually 80% of the structures that burned had wood shake roofs. I have a standard condo section in my Interactive Report System that provides several recommendations, e.g., get a copy of the CCRs, a copy of monthly meeting minutes for the last year, a copy of the HOA budget, reserves, etc. In this specific instance, my Client discovered that there was a special assessment on all owners of record of July 1, 2004, for replacing the wood shake roofs. The special assement was $10,000. My Client was scheduled to close escrow on June 30, 2004. She pulled out of the contract because she didn't want to be hit with that special assessment a day after she moved in.

I also recommend that they have the HOA representatives inspect the roof, chimney, exterior walls, etc., prior to close of escrow. And if the HOA representatives refuse to do that (never had one that did), then they should get HOA approval for my Clients to hire an appropriate person for those inspections and have the HOA pay for it.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

But once you go down the road of inspecting things out side the building envelope for the "protection of the client" where does one draw the line?

Parking lot? Condo roof four buildings over? Communal pool? Lake? Elevator? Rec room? Laundry facilities?

That's exactly how my attorneys and insurance providers explained it to me.

Also make sure that your insurance (E&O, GL, AD&D, life, workers' comp) will cover you when you intrude into the jurisdiction of the HOA. Mine do not.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Correct. But once you go down the road of inspecting things out side the building envelope for the "protection of the client" where does one draw the line?

Parking lot? Condo roof four buildings over? Communal pool? Lake? Elevator? Rec room? Laundry facilities?

My point being, and I am sure I used the word GENERALLY, that with the traditional use of the term condo means client owns the inside of the building. Check out what condo insurance Generally covers.
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Your ideas are all reasonable ...

My clients, generally , appreciate knowing as much as I can help them with regarding potential responsibilities.

[Brian R. Sumpter]

Here is what I use:

FOR CONDOMINIUMS, TOWNHOUSES, AND SUBDIVISIONS WITH COMMON AREAS:

Typically, ownership of a condominium means the ‘owner’ has a fee simple title to the air space contained within the walls, floors, and ceilings of the ‘owner’s’ unit, and an undivided share in all of the "common areas" of the condominium project in which the unit is located. Common areas typically include the building exteriors, the roof, foundation, the land on which the development is established, parking areas, landscape and any recreational facilities or additional site features the development may have. Common elements are typically maintained by and insured by the Homeowners Association or property management group affiliated with the development. While common elements may have been inspected in the course of completing this home inspection, items noted that are of concern to the client should be brought to the attention of the Homeowners Association and/or property management group, and are typically not within the direct control or responsibility of the individual unit owner.

Common areas (e.g., walls, foundation, roof, etc.), shared by more than one unit, common mechanical systems (e.g., garage, water heater, laundry, etc.) used by more than one unit, and areas typically under the jurisdiction of the homeowner’s association (e.g., exterior grounds, exterior structure, and exterior systems) will not be inspected.

Common components and common areas: First Call Home Inspections does not test, analyze, inspect, or offer an opinion on the condition or function of areas or structural components common to more than one unit, systems serving more than one unit, or areas which typically are under the jurisdiction of a homeowners’ association, including, but not limited to, structure exterior (including decks, balconies, porches, patios, and parking structures), roof, chimney foundation, fences, and utility service entries.

Some areas or systems may or may not be under the jurisdiction of the association (garage, water heater, laundry, etc.). Homeowners’ associations sometimes have qualified personnel who can assist Client with many areas of concern, sometimes at little or no cost. Recommend always consulting with homeowners’ association prior to commencing any work whatsoever. BEFORE CLOSE OF ESCROW, WE RECOMMEND: (1) Walking property to determine if homeowners’ association is maintaining structures and property in a condition satisfactory to Client; (2) Having qualified homeowners’ association personnel inspect all common area structural systems and mechanical components servicing this condominium or town home, particularly, but not limited to, foundation, structure exterior, roof, and chimney; (3) Acquiring homeowners’ association public records, minutes, bylaws, budget, etc., to help determine any consistent problems with common area grounds or components; (4) Checking with homeowners’ association concerning Client’s responsibility and any non-recurring fees, dues, or assessments which might be forthcoming.

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