A little on the Commercial side of things.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Interesting that they call the system "Cool-Vent". I'd like to be there to monitor the roof and cavity temps in hot sunny summer weather!!

A 1" gap for venting is very small and provides a lot of "drag" on air trying to move by the very weak forces of bouyancy from heating. Our Canadian building code requires 2.5" for this system (unless stamped by an arch or eng).

About 10-12 years ago, Bill Rose measured temps in a "vented" cathedral system and found that there was cooling effect on the lower roof materials where the ambient air entered but by the time the air had moved slowly up the vent cavity, it was the same temp as an unvented cavity. He found that the air temps in a nearby unvented regular attic were lower than the vented cavity temps!!

May have a case where the architect is working with older BS and what he's been told by the materials sales force.

This doesn't appear to be a low slope roof (under 4/12) or is it? Was just curious about the full "Ice and Watershield" treatment.

Hunter Panels - Cool-Vent™ In The News
An annual exclusive, the Buildings 2005 Editors’ Choice Selects Cool-Vent™ as one of the best 100 solutions in 2005
Buildings - December 2005
Architectural Integrity while Reroofing a Historic 200-year-old Home
Roofing Contractor- April 2002
Product Spotlight: Cool-Vent
Roofing Contractor - May 2002


[FONT=sans serif: helvetica, arial][/font] Product selection comes down to one goal: the overall quality of a building and its ongoing operations and performance. Looking for smart products and outstanding services to meet your needs? An annual exclusive, the Buildings 2005 Editors’ Choice selections once again deliver 100 solutions to help you attain optimal building performance and best-practice objectives. Product descriptions are followed by comments from the editorial staff.
Buildings magazine, which was launched in January 1906 as The Building Manager and Owner, serves 72,000 building owners and professional facilities managers - the decision-makers in commercial, institutional and governmental real estate in North America. The monthly publication offers readers information on the development, construction, modernization, management and operation of buildings, as well as the products and services needed to support such facilities.
Back before the Civil War broke out, the famed Shaw family of Boston would take the train up to northern Maine to relax at their seaside farmhouse. Governor Shaw and his son Robert spent many summer days at the Shaw home in Stueben, Maine.

For you history buffs, the Shaw home was the family summer retreat of Colonel Robert Gould Shaw of Massachusetts. Colonel Shaw was immortalized in the movie Glory as the inspired leader of the famous Civil-War-era Massachusetts 54th regiment. This was our country's first all-African-American regiment, a regiment whose bravery set an example for all Americans.

While walking around this beautiful site one gets the feeling that nothing here has changed since those times. The ocean still brings cool summer breezes, the neighbors still look after one another, and the world seems far away and simpler. This is picturesque Stueben, Maine, a comfortable five and a half hours north of Boston and one hour north of famous Bar Harbor.
This American classic was built before ventilation, and even insulation. While historic and beautiful, it posed a real challenge for a roofing contractor to modernize the roofing system without altering the historic original architecture.
The home was built back in 1810 and has been kept completely intact. Its original designers used hand-hewn local trees as framing, and used local 14- to 16-inch-wide elm hardwood roofing deck boards. The frame was installed post-and-beam style with the deck boards installed vertically on the roof — instead of horizontally across the roof. The original frame is still intact with the hand-driven mortise and tenons strongly holding the rafters to the main roof beam. The Shaw family descendants still own and care for the home.
Needless to say, this roof system needed several key modern updates. The original decking is now 191 years old. There was no ventilation installed, and no insulation above the lived-in attic space. Haywood Kingsbury of Mid State Contracting welcomed these challenges. As he explains, “Up here we get a lot of roofs like this one — we're experts at modernizing these old homes.” I had the pleasure of working a couple days on this project with Mid State.



The Problems
After one trip to the attic, we knew that the roof deck had to be replaced; it had reached its end. We also knew that there was extreme heat loss through the roof. The attic is a finished and working part of the home. There was nothing holding in winter heat. There was also no ventilation anywhere, not even gable-end vents. The problem was, how were we going to insulate the attic, add a new deck, and ventilate the new system when installed? The first solution was new decking. Kingsbury decided to use a roof deck/insulation product to add both insulation and ventilation space. The Hunter Panel Company manufactures an isocyanurate/plywood deck. “This is great stuff to work with,” explains Kingsbury. “There’s a 2-inch area for air flow with a new plywood deck installed by the manufacturer, one piece — all ready to go.”

The next solution was to install new intake venting. At this point, we knew that we could vent the new roofing system at the ridge. Cutting in a ridge vent would be easy. But intake ventilation presented more problems. The original design had no soffit area. “We’ve tried to use vented drip edges up here before, but snow and ice often finds a way through them,” explains Kingsbury. With the help of GAF ventilation experts, Mid State Contracting devised a simple and effective intake ventilation solution. “We saw that with the use of the Cobra Fascia Vent, we could install a continuous intake vent that would never have the problems of snow and ice penetration that we ran into with other intake vents,” Kingsbury explains.



Putting it All Together
Step One: Complete Tear-off. As you can see in the photos, the crew from Mid State removed the old roof. “We always remove old roofing, regardless of how many layers are there, we just can’t be sure a roof will last without starting from scratch.” As we figured, the old deck had seen better times. “This roof deck probably had supported six or more previous roofing installations. Even though it’s strong old hardwood, its time had come,” claims Kingsbury. Step Two: New Insulated Deck. At this point, the crews installed the Hunter insulated panels. “This step was made much easier by using these prefabricated insulated deck boards. We just installed them right over the top of the old deck, making sure we fastened them to the old rafter boards,” says Kingsbury.

Step Three: Intake Vent. The fascia vent was installed at the eave, directly on top of the old fascia board. Installed across the entire system’s edge, the new intake vent is positioned to act as air intake for the entire insulated deck system, and the entire roofing system. “As GAF Master Elite Contractors installing the Golden Pledge Ltd. Warranty, we know that we have to properly ventilate the roof for the system to really last,” says Kingsbury. “We always ventilate, we simply want the best for our customers.”
Step Four: New Fascia and Trim Woodwork. At this point, the talent of Mid State’s crew came through. “We needed to keep the architectural integrity of this home,” says Kingsbury. “Our carpenter was instrumental in ensuring that the new system looked as close to the original as possible.” As seen in the photos, the carpenter carefully crafted a brand new fascia board that covered the fascia vent and would act as the new fascia. “It took some crafting, but once we found the perfect new fascia dimensions, we knew we had solved a major portion of keeping this home’s architectural integrity.” As you can see, this detail absolutely ensures that water, snow and ice cannot penetrate this system at the eaves. “There’s no storm going to get through this edge detail,” ensures Kingsbury.
Once the new fascia was installed, the carpenter went to work and matched the rake side trim. “We’d raised this roof’s profile by more than 2 inches above the old trim at the rakes,” Kingsbury explains. “So, like the fascia, we needed to install new trim work at the rakes.” By carefully mitering all of the corners of new woodwork, both the new intake vents and the new raised decking were molded into this home’s original profile with virtually no way of seeing the changes.

Step Five: Wider, More Durable 8-inch Drip Edge. To bridge the new small gap between the new fascia boards and the new deck, we installed a wider, 8-inch drip edge on this roof. As seen in the photos, this wider more durable drip edge perfectly covered the fascia and decking transition area.

Step Six: Roofing Northern Maine Style. After clearing the hurdles faced by the carpenter, these seasoned roofers could get to work weatherproofing for their harsh climate. “We can get a couple of feet of snow here every winter, but this house is so close to the ocean that ice storms are actually more common than snowstorms,” says Kingsbury. With that in mind, these roofers believe in extra waterproofing steps all over the roof. “With warranty, GAF asks us to install a leak barrier like Weather Watch in several key places, like at chimneys, around plumbing vents, at any sidewalls, and of course, at the eaves. The funny thing is we were doing those things ourselves before GAF even suggested them to us, our weather here called for it.”

The owner of this home, with Mid State’s guidance, chose to use the GAF Slateline shingle. “We felt it offered a great historical look, just like real slate. But we definitely wanted the 110-mph wind warranty on this coastal home,” explains Sally Harrison.

Step 7: Ridge Vent. Finally, the Cobra Ridge Vent is installed, giving this old farmhouse a way to vent off the excess heat and moisture. Mid State chose the low-profile vent to keep the roof’s ridge profile as close to original as possible. “Other ridge vents would have stood out too much on this home,” explains Kingsbury.
As you can see from the photo, there is virtually no way to tell that there was significant carpentry done at the trim edges of this home. But you can certainly tell that the new roofing system was well designed, professionally installed, and ready to withstand all the challenges that mother nature throws at a home on the coast of northern Maine, just a few hours drive from Canada.
Somehow you get the feeling that Colonel Shaw would be impressed that the integrity of his family’s summer place is still intact, while the inventions of modern times are keeping the old place warmer and safer for generations to come. Jan Whalen, the home’s current owner and a great granddaughter in the Shaw family, is completely satisfied. “We’re ecstatic with the look of this new roof, even some of our traditional-minded neighbors have commented on how ‘original’ it looks,” she says. “Here in Stueben, Maine, that means a lot!”



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[FONT=sans serif: helvetica, arial]We recently drew your attention to the importance of attic insulation (see Roofing Contractor, March 2002, “The Home Ventilating Institute: Not Just a Lot of Hot Air”). But what if there is no attic to ventilate? What do you do when you need insulation and ventilation outside of a structural roof deck, such as vaulted and log home applications, post-and-beam construction and cathedral ceilings? What can you use to ventilate steep-slope shingle, shake, tile or metal roof applications over metal decks? Hunter Panels, Portland, Maine, offers one of the many products on the market to address these issues. Cool-Vent is a rigid roof insulation composed of a closed-cell polyisocyanurate foam core manufactured as a ventilated nailbase roof insulation panel. The product is constructed with a top later of APA-rated 7/16-inch OSB, a middle layer of wood spacers and a bottom layer of polyisocyanurate foam insulation. It has a standard 1-inch ventilation space that allows for airflow in all directions, helping to decrease moisture vapor and heat build-up, thus improving the overall efficiency of the building.
“Our standard Cool-Vent offers the greatest amount of vent space available in the industry – 1 inch,” says Jim Whitton, national sales manager for Hunter Panels. The product can also be made in 1 1/2- and 2-inch vent space upon request. “The intent of this product is to be as versatile as is required by individual design and engineering needs,” says Whitton. In addition to offering three different types of air space, the specially made off-line product can have two types of OSB (7/16 or 5/8-inch) or several types of plywood (1/2 inch, 3/4 inch and 5/8 inch in standard, firetreated or marine grade), and the edges are routed back on all four sides to allow for expansion of the lumber.
“Most shingle manufacturers are recommending vented substrates so their products don't overheat,” says Whitton. “Cool-Vent offers 92 percent open air space plus cross ventilation.” As for the insulating properties, depending on how the Cool-Vent is configured, the product can have an R-value from 8.30 to 32.30.
Whitton says the product was designed after conversations with contractors about what they would like to see on steep-slope applications over metal deck. Cool-Vent provides energy efficiency, is lightweight, and can be installed in one step, greatly reducing the contractor’s installed cost.
John Hinshaw of Hinshaw Roofing, Frankfurt, Ind., attests to the value of Cool-Vent. “We used Cool-Vent on a school last year and we are currently using it on an identical building,” he says. Both buildings are elementary schools in the Metropolitan School District of Perry Township, Ind. The projects are new construction and the roof system consists of a metal deck, Cool-Vent, a waterproofing underlayment, and CertainTeed’s Grand Manor Shangle. “The shingle is very expensive and nice looking,” adds Hinshaw, “We’ve used it on several schools.”
As for the insulation, “We were given a choice of products on the spec, there are lots of comparable products on the market,” says Hinshaw. “We chose Cool-Vent because we had success with it last year and it is very economical. It’s easy to work with and it was delivered as scheduled – with no problems.” Hinshaw adds that his local rep provides top-of-the-line service, including one instance where he delivered needed brochures to the office before 6:00 a.m. “Where there’s a problem, he solves it,” says Hinshaw.
Bill Frake of Partiot Roofing, Jobstown, N.J., says that his company has done about 2,000 squares of Cool-Vent over the past year and half. One such project was St. Isaac’s Church in Marlton, N.J. This high-profile new construction job included 200 squares of GAF Timberline shingles as well as a flat EPDM section and copper details. Frake says there are several good reasons to use Cool-Vent. The first is that “The venting is cross directional so it provides heating and cooling across the entire roof,” he says. Frake also appreciates the blocking details as well as the product’s availability and fast delivery. In addition, “Cool-Vent is very easy to work with. It’s one piece, you just pick it up and go.”


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The roof slope on this project was 5 and 1/2" vented top and bottom through screened vents.

The purpose of the ice and watershield is for the fast pace of the Project in order to have the building watertight as soon as possible. The cost for this is expected out of our Sub-Contractor and incorporated on the job.
It also provides a second defense on the roof system over the projected 20 years or more. The roofs on a college campus are always pushed to the limit and they are willing to pay for this addittional expense, just like I would be on my own home. Just loggical thing to do.

Marcel

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Just have to ask these questions!!! An analytical mind at work.

The most important thing before the start of Masonry, FLASHING.

This is a base flashing installed with a drip copper set in mastic. It provides the face shield wash and diverts the water

Sample of the brick tie.

Installation of the counter flashing using a 3 oz. copper fabric flashing set in mastic with a termination bar.

Next step is to add the #30 lb felt paper over all the flashing work. This provides the part wind barrier and drainage plane for the brick cavity.

The final step, add the 2" 250 formula Styrofoam which is an R- 10 and the prong brick ties on a membrane gasket to prevent water or moisture intrusion through the galvanized metal stud screws. These screws also have a neoprene washer hex head.

And that is the way it is. (in most places) ha. ha.

The roof insulation and the nail board terminate against a perimeter bent plate detail and then gets incapsulated in the roof blocking provided to configure the roof edge detail.
The interior portions of the suseptable areas will get spray on Corbond product polyiscynarate.

These areas are critical and have to be addressed. I will be posting pictures in the future as this gets done.

Marcel

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Thanks for the answers, Marcel!!

Is there a way to give us larger pictures in the last post. When I blow them up, I lose the resolution.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Thanks for the answers, Marcel!!

Is there a way to give us larger pictures in the last post. When I blow them up, I lose the resolution.

The bigger pictures are in post 102 Brian.

Marcel

[Marcel R. Cyr]

This one is for Brian MacNeish; ha. ha.

And he thought my ductwork did not get sealed, hah

Attachment 16012

Attachment 16013

You can see in the ductwork configuration that it might not make much sense having a small round duct going into a rectangular duct, but this system is designed with VAV's.
You can see the coil at your right in one picture and left in the other. This coil will be piped with heat and cooling.

A VAV system controls the climate using a relatively simple process. The air-handling unit filters and conditions (heats or cools) the air. The fan in the air-handling unit pushes the air through ductwork to local spaces. In each space, a thermostat controls the volume damper in the VAV box to regulate airflow. As a rule, to maintain the necessary fresh air for ventilation, the airflow should not be less than 25% of the VAV's design capacity.



Attachment 16015

Air Handlers

An air-handling unit is the main component of an air-conditioning system. It includes:

• Various dampers that control the flow of outside air, return air, and mixed air.
• An air filter that removes dust particles from the air.
• Heating and cooling coils that condition the air.
• A fan that delivers the conditioned air to various parts of the building.

You should only use an air-handling unit with an economizer cycle control. Weather permitting, this setting uses cool outside air to reduce the indoor temperature. This minimizes or eliminates the need for mechanical cooling and reduces your energy usage and costs. Following are additional energy-efficiency tips for air handlers:

• Supply and return fans use more energy than any other element of an air-handling unit. Only use air handlers with highly energy-efficient airfoil fans.

Marcel

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Progress check at the Gym Project.

Attachment 16018 Wood and more wood, the floor is going down in a pretty good pace due to two shifts at 8 hours a piece.

Attachment 16019

Attachment 16020 The maple floor is being nailed at almost 8" on center.

Attachment 16021 This is a pretty neat trick. A weed whacker string is installed inbetween the boards at two feet on center, and this is to provide the calculated moisture expansion the wood will eventually absorb. The wood on the installation is down to about 6.2 per cent and is way to dry. Therefore when it picks up humidity, it will expand which will happen withing the next week or so.



Attachment 16022 A 1 &1/2" expansion is left at the edges for expansion and a rubber base as pictured will be installed. There are little grooves on the vertical leg to provide air circulation.

Marcel

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mcyr

You can see in the ductwork configuration that it might not make much sense having a small round duct going into a rectangular duct, but this system is designed with VAV's.

Marcel: Used to manage a small air balance / air quality firm from 1990-92. Got to commission a bank with the first Carrier VAVT's in the Maritimes. The Carrier eng rep drove 250 miles to get me started at 10 AM. Left the bank about 11 pm as could not get the systems to work just right. About 10 pm, figured out the HVAC sub's men crosswired VAVT boxes from AHU 's 1 & 2!!!
You didn't want to be in earshot of me at that moment of enlightenment.

• Supply and return fans use more energy than any other element of an air-handling unit. Only use air handlers with highly energy-efficient airfoil fans and energy-efficient motors. (Remember, I used to run the energy-efficient regulations in this province)

Marcel

Thanks Marcel.

What about duct insulation and acoustical duct liner?

[Peter C. Russell]

Marcel,
I look at those guys and my back hurts, after installing many hardwood floors I know it can be one of the most physically demanding and exhausting jobs there is.

I do have a question about the string though, do they sand over it and seal it with the rest of the floor?? Great pictures, I really am enjoying them.

Pete

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by prussell

Marcel,
I look at those guys and my back hurts, after installing many hardwood floors I know it can be one of the most physically demanding and exhausting jobs there is.

Boy, you got that right, Peter!

Originally Posted by prussell

I do have a question about the string though, do they sand over it and seal it with the rest of the floor?? Great pictures, I really am enjoying them.

Pete

I believe they get yanked before the floor swells to somewhere around 12% but there are many variables that can change what moisture content is needed before sealing it. But i've not seen that particular trick before so I'm also interested in what Marcel has to say.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by prussell

Marcel,
I look at those guys and my back hurts, after installing many hardwood floors I know it can be one of the most physically demanding and exhausting jobs there is.

I do have a question about the string though, do they sand over it and seal it with the rest of the floor?? Great pictures, I really am enjoying them.

Pete

Hi. Peter and no the weed whacker string is removed once they are about four feet away and re-used.
The installer pointed out to me that he records the humidity of the wood and calls it in the factory and they compute the expansion based on that information and tell him what size weed string to use. In this case I think he told me .090. Not sure.

The wood product here is down to about 6.2% and that is dry based on the installation parameters of humidity accepted levels of 6-12 percent.

The natural ventilation and conditions of the ambient air of the surrounding will most likely raise the humidity of the wood to about 8-10 and maybe 12% at times. They claim this space will close up within a week while they are sanding.

Attachment 16026

They should be sanding this week and will try to get pictures. They told me they have double drum rider sanders.
Well, that I have to see. ha. ha.

Marcel

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Thanks Marcel.

What about duct insulation and acoustical duct liner?

Brian, your rushing me for chr$st sake, I don't have the duct sealed yet. ha. ha.

The same engineers from the my other project chose to not have a liner in this job. A duct wrap on the exterior will be used only.
I believe it has to do with this Project being a Leeds Project and Flush out that is required at the end of the job, and personally, I never cared for lined Duct, especially when you have had a chance to look inside after 20 + years.
It is disgusting.
This job is Commissioned also and as a matter of fact, he was on the job today, checking out the HVAC unit on the roof, making sure the duct work on the floor is tarped over and open ended duct at the end of the day are covered up, and so forth.
The duct will get seal, air tested and then insulated to meet the required specifications.

Now give me a few days to finish will you.

Marcel

[Larry D. Kage]

Giddy-up...
Time waites for no man, Marcel...that and winter.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by lkage

Giddy-up...
Time waites for no man, Marcel...that and winter.

Alright Larry, payback is a b$tch. I'll get my chance.

Marcel

[Peter C. Russell]

Marcel, is the string used because of the size of the floor?

I've never installed a wood floor that size and not sure if I want to!!!!!!!

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by prussell

Marcel, is the string used because of the size of the floor?

I've never installed a wood floor that size and not sure if I want to!!!!!!!

Good morning Peter;

With 18,000 s.f. of wood, something will expand when it starts to pick up humidity. They have got it down to a science. the Manufacturer advises the installer on how often to install the strings based on the moisture content of the wood as it is being installed.
What I could see, it has been averageing about two foot increments.
I am curious too, so I will keep an eye on the movement caused by the humidity level as they finish.

Marcel