Pellet stove help

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

ULC means UL laboratory did the compliance testing to the appropriate Canadian product Standard.

NoT quite, Michael. That stands for a separate organization altogether.

See these sites for clarification:
http://www.ulc.ca/about_ulc/index.asp
http://www.ulc.ca/about_ulc/certification_marks.asp
http://www.ul.com/marks_labels/mark/index.html#north



NORTH AMERICA

UL Listing Mark

This is one of the most common UL Marks. If a product carries this Mark, it means UL found that representative samples of this product met UL's safety requirements. These requirements are primarily based on UL's own published Standards for Safety. This type of Mark is seen commonly on appliances and computer equipment, furnaces and heaters, fuses, electrical panelboards, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, fire extinguishers and sprinkler systems, personal flotation devices like life jackets and life preservers, bullet resistant glass, and thousands of other products.
UL Listing vs. Recognition. What's the difference? -- Find out in this brief article from UL's Code Authority Newsletter.
C-UL Listing Mark

This mark is applied to products for the Canadian market. The products with this type of mark have been evaluated to Canadian safety requirements, which may be somewhat different from U.S. safety requirements. You will see this type of Mark on appliances and computer equipment, vending machines, household burglar alarm systems, lighting fixtures, and many other types of products.
C-UL US Listing Mark

UL introduced this new Listing Mark in early 1998. It indicates compliance with both Canadian and U.S. requirements. The Canada/U.S. UL Mark is optional. UL encourages those manufacturers with products certified for both countries to use this new, combined Mark, but they may continue using separate UL Marks for the United States and Canada.
Classification Mark

This mark appears on representative samples of products that UL has evaluated but only with respect to specific properties, a limited range of hazards, or suitability for use under limited or special conditions. Typically, products Classified by UL fall into the general categories of building materials and industrial equipment. Examples of types of equipment Classified by UL include immersion suits, fire doors, protective gear for fire fighters and industrial trucks.
C-UL Classification Mark

This Classification marking is used for products intended for the Canadian marketplace. It indicates that UL has used Canadian standards to evaluate the product for specific hazards or properties. Examples of C-UL Classified products include air filter units, firestop devices, certain types of roofing systems, and others.
C-UL US Classification Mark

UL introduced this new Classification Mark in early 1998. It indicates compliance with both Canadian and U.S. requirements. The Canada/U.S. UL Mark is optional. UL encourages those manufacturers with products certified for both countries to use this new, combined Mark, but they may continue using separate UL Marks for the United States and Canada.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

NoT quite, Michael. That stands for a separate organization altogether.w, combined Mark, but they may continue

You're wrong.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

You're wrong.

SO, Michael, explain this from ULC:
http://www.ulc.ca/about_ulc/index.asp

Using "ULC" is not a safety mark but an abbreviation of Underwriters Laboratories of Canada

ABOUT ULC

About ULC and how we can help you

ULC … Working for a safer world

Underwriters’ Laboratories of Canada (ULC) is an independent, not-for-profit product safety organization with a long reputation as a Canadian leader in product safety standards development, testing, and certification.
Founded in 1920, ULC is a key architect of the Canadian National Safety System, administered by the Standards Council of Canada (SCC). ULC’s time-tested system supports governmental product safety regulations, and it complements federal, provincial, and municipal public safety initiatives. As an affiliate of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) and the UL family of companies worldwide, ULC also works with other governments and international safety systems to help further international trade with adherence to local and international safety requirements.

Standards for Safety
ULC publishes and maintains close to 300 Canadian safety standards and other related documents. These standards play an important part in improving public safety. ULC employs a consensus-based process of developing effective product safety standards, using input from consumers, manufacturers, government agencies, users, regulatory authorities and other interested parties.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

SO, Michael, explain this from ULC:
http://www.ulc.ca/about_ulc/index.asp

Using "ULC" is not a safety mark but an abreviation of Underwriters Lboratories of Canada

ABOUT ULC

About ULC and how we can help you

ULC … Working for a safer world

Underwriters’ Laboratories of Canada (ULC) is an independent, not-for-profit product safety organization with a long reputation as a Canadian leader in product safety standards development, testing, and certification.
Founded in 1920, ULC is a key architect of the Canadian National Safety System, administered by the Standards Council of Canada (SCC). ULC’s time-tested system supports governmental product safety regulations, and it complements federal, provincial, and municipal public safety initiatives. As an affiliate of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) and the UL family of companies worldwide, ULC also works with other governments and international safety systems to help further international trade with adherence to local and international safety requirements.

Standards for Safety
ULC publishes and maintains close to 300 Canadian safety standards and other related documents. These standards play an important part in improving public safety. ULC employs a consensus-based process of developing effective product safety standards, using input from consumers, manufacturers, government agencies, users, regulatory authorities and other interested parties.

Aren't we all talking about the same thing here?

About UL Mark Product Certification

The following information pertains to Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) product certification programs accredited by the U.S. Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA), the American National Standards Institute (ANSI), and the Standards Council of Canada (SCC).
UL operates under its own authority as an independent, not-for-profit, nongovernmental organization.
To establish certification, samples of a product submitted by manufacturers for certification are tested and evaluated. If UL decides the product fulfills all applicable requirements it authorizes the manufacturer to apply a certification mark to production of the samples submitted, or issues a certificate or notification that the product is now certified by UL. A report of the evaluation is provided to the manufacturer. Before the manufacturer releases products with a certification mark, UL must initiate Follow-up Service in which periodic audits of products at the factory are completed by UL Field Representatives (see FUStart for more information about UL Follow-Up Service). These audits are described in a Follow-Up Service Procedure that is created as part of the initial evaluation of the product. For some products, factory samples are selected for retesting at UL. Certification continues until the manufacturer requests termination or fails to fulfill a requirement. UL must evaluate modifications to certified products before the modified product is authorized to bear the Mark or be considered certified.
Testing and evaluation of samples of products submitted for certification can be performed in UL's laboratories or in laboratories qualified by UL assessment and ongoing monitoring (see the Data Accpetance Program web page for more information on testing performed by outside laboratories). Only UL reviews the results of all testing and evaluation and decides if the product is eligible for certification.
UL is financially funded by the fees it charges manufacturers of the products submitted for certification. Fees are charged for the initial evaluation process, as well as ongoing maintenance fees for Follow-Up Service.
The associated rights and responsibilities of UL and manufacturers are detailed in the various contractual agreements that must be executed prior to initiating the certification process. Additional information is available on the Submittal Process page.
A formal Appeals Process is available to applicants to address questions concerning interpretations and decisions made by UL concerning submitted products. An appeal can be initiated by contacting Customer Service or the engineer that was involved with the project. A Field Report system is also available for reporting safety-related problems with certified products. Contact information is available on the Consumer Affairs page. An online Field Report form is also available.
A directory of certified products is available online via the Online Certifications Directory. Other sources of information concerning certified products and their suppliers include the UL Directories and the UL Listing Card Service.
Please also see the FAQ page for additional details about UL Mark Product Certification.

Dosen't it come down to the fact that if a Product is not listed for a certain application, that it might be wrong, or a safety hazard?

Where are you going with this Brian.?

You seem to have lost the topic.

Marcel

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

As an affiliate of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) and the UL family of companies worldwide,

Perhaps we are speaking of different things.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Perhaps we are speaking of different things.

Hi. Mike; Hope you are doing well.

I found this that Brian might be referring too.

I am not sure my comprehension of what he is saying is following, but here it is.


Q: Does UL test to Canadian Standards?

A:

Under our Canadian Listing program, UL can test products to the appropriate Canadian standards. If the product is found to be in compliance, UL will issue a UL Listing, Classification or Recognition Marking with a small "c" as an identifier. In addition, UL introduced a new Listing Mark, the C-UL US Listing Mark, in early 1998. This Mark indicates compliance with both Canadian and U.S. requirements. The Canada/U.S. UL Mark is optional.


Marcel

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish
As an affiliate of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) and the UL family of companies worldwide,

Perhaps we are speaking of different things.

In the 1990's, from working on 2 different standards creation committees with CSA and CGSB, it was conveyed to me that ULC, a third Canadian standards creation/testing/certification entity, is its own fully independent operation. With the goal of standards harmonization, these orgs had to become affiliated in that they recognize each others capabilities, QC and professionalism as being equal and maybe in some instances complimentary.

If they would have been all part of the same org with Canada being a branch plant of the US operation, harmonization should have proceeded at a much faster pace.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Hi. Mike; Hope you are doing well.

I found this that Brian might be referring too.

I am not sure my comprehension of what he is saying is following, but here it is.


Q: Does UL test to Canadian Standards?

A:

Under our Canadian Listing program, UL can test products to the appropriate Canadian standards. If the product is found to be in compliance, UL will issue a UL Listing, Classification or Recognition Marking with a small "c" as an identifier. In addition, UL introduced a new Listing Mark, the C-UL US Listing Mark, in early 1998. This Mark indicates compliance with both Canadian and U.S. requirements. The Canada/U.S. UL Mark is optional.


Marcel

Marcel:

Just trying to clear up a few subtle differences about certification marks so that people who do not know the subtleties do not get fooled or, in the worst case, accept something by seeing a label they don't know how to read correctly and it leads to injury, death or a law suit down the road.

For example:
In the US, someone may find this label* on equipment (stove pipe, chimneys, etc) on some mis-shipped products (I have a story about that). By looking at the UL mark, one might think that this was tested by UL- a readily accepted organization- and approved for installation in the US.......but it is not! The equipment may have been manufactured and tested in the US but cannot be installed there as it does not meet a US standard.

* from the ULC website:
C-UL Listing Mark

This mark is applied to products for the Canadian market. The products with this type of mark have been evaluated to Canadian safety requirements, which may be somewhat different from U.S. safety requirements. You will see this type of Mark on appliances and computer equipment, vending machines, household burglar alarm systems, lighting fixtures, and many other types of products.

My story:
About 10' from where I now sit is a Vermont Castings Resolute wood stove. In 1983, it was shipped to a former acquaintenance's Alternative Energy store here in Nova Scotia but was tested and certified to an American Standard only. He knew I was looking for a better stove than I was using, so gave me a call.

After checking with VC and my insurance company, getting the their OK, I purchased the stove at his cost (it pays having a Scottish name). Apparently, at that time, the stoves that were sold in both countries were the same but had to be tested in a US and a Canadian lab to different standards. To save $$$ in labelling, they only affixed the label for the country the units were intended to be shipped to and did not affix two labells to all units.....so they saved ,what, $0.50 per unit!

Things were much less stringent in the wood heat industry then and I might not be able to do this deal now.

[dproulx]

a simple call to a fire place specialist would probably help you on this one or google pellet stove consruction/schematics or something like that might help