Please help me!

[klott]

Originally Posted by Virginia P. Chick

I have no idea who to turn to so I am hoping someone here can help me.

My husband, parents and I are renovating a house that was built in the 1950's. We came across a kitchen floor that was made from material that we thought was old linoleum. My stepfather took a piece of it and burned it and said that he didn't think it was asbestos since it burned.

Well, stupidly we all proceeded to strip the floor and the black "adhesive" down to the original wood. Now I am freaking out because I am wondering if it was indeed asbestos. No one used the proper masks, gloves or anything. I am sure asbestos fibers were flying all over the place, including into our lungs.

I honestly cannot sleep over the worry. Now I feel we all will develop lung cancer from breathing in this stuff.

Is there a way to determine whether that material was asbestos? The floor is pretty much clean now but could something in the surrounding area be tested for fibers? From what I read, it is very likely that it was asbestos, but I want to make sure.

Can someone suggest something here? I am sick from worry about the impact on all of us who worked on this floor!!!

Virginia, calm down, it's not a given that everybody who comes into contact with asbestos is going to get cancer or die. I'm a perfect example, in the early 70's before they started advising caution on asbestos, I remodeled old commercial buildings all over the U.S., and I tore it out of walls, and ceilings with no protection at all, and I'm still here, and cancer free. Talk to a doctor about it, and limit your exposure to it. Hope this helps, Ken

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by Virginia P. Chick

I have no idea who to turn to so I am hoping someone here can help me.

My husband, parents and I are renovating a house that was built in the 1950's. We came across a kitchen floor that was made from material that we thought was old linoleum. My stepfather took a piece of it and burned it and said that he didn't think it was asbestos since it burned.

Well, stupidly we all proceeded to strip the floor and the black "adhesive" down to the original wood. Now I am freaking out because I am wondering if it was indeed asbestos. No one used the proper masks, gloves or anything. I am sure asbestos fibers were flying all over the place, including into our lungs.

I honestly cannot sleep over the worry. Now I feel we all will develop lung cancer from breathing in this stuff.

Is there a way to determine whether that material was asbestos? The floor is pretty much clean now but could something in the surrounding area be tested for fibers? From what I read, it is very likely that it was asbestos, but I want to make sure.

Can someone suggest something here? I am sick from worry about the impact on all of us who worked on this floor!!!

Virginia

Here is some more info about Asbestos [worth the read].
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[Greg Veal]

Virginia,

Something I think you ought to know, or at least think about...

I'm not a Dr. but, if indeed the materials were asbestos or asbestos based, I agree with Gerry, Joe and others, any long term complications are probably unlikely.

As a private citizen working on your own home, you fall under different rules of engagement so to speak, than the contractor you hire to come in and do the same job. But when you do the work yourself, and then go try to discard the materials, in say a public landfill, well now you get into environmental issues that you may not want to deal with.

If you haven't dumped the materials yet, make some calls to landfills, etc. and ask how they would handle old flooring that MAY have asbestos materials in it. I mean at this point, we are all just speculating on the makeup of the material you are describing.

If you have already dumped the materials, I recommend being very careful what questions, and to whom, you ask. On top of the worry you've already been having, you don't want the EPA possibly giving you a call because of someone you talked to became a whistle-blower.

I know, this may seem kind of a reach, but an acquaintance who purchased a 1910's home in old midtown Atlanta, and who did most of the demolition and renovations himself got turned in by someone. A buddy of mine did the electrical work and he told me that the last day he was allowed on the job was the morning the Ga.EPA Rep. showed up, with friends. My buddy was allowed to pick up his tools and materials that was not directly connected to or in the area of concern and leave. Most of the debris/materials had already been dumped, but some was still on site.
Months after that day, jobsite totally shut down, civil fines, court dates, lawyers, etc. the guy finally was allowed back on HIS property, and ALLOWED to continue and finish. Last I heard, he had sold the property, with a good bit of disclosure and other hassles in documentation.

I just recommend being careful what you say, who you say it to and try to make right decisions based on best information.

Good Luck

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Virginia,
From your description of the floor and most especially the black adhesive plus the "1950's timeline" it is obvious that you are dealing with linoleum instead of a vinyl floor.

A linoleum floor came in "sheets" and was stiff/rigid instead of soft and flexible like a vinyl floor. Some of the distinctions of a linoleum floor were the fact that it was "rigid", and had a paper backing. The adhesive used was black in color.

I'm sorry to inform you that linoleum floors were "durable" because of the asbestos content. The old saying was that you could not wear one out but that they would "ugly out". The older black color "cut back adhesive" also had an asbestos content.
Due to the asbestos content linoleum floors were "outlawed" and if memory serves me correctly 1976-78 were the last years that they were allowed to be installed.

A vinyl floor also comes in either a six-foot wide or 12 foot wide "sheets" but it is soft and flexible and the adhesive is not black. If a black adhesive were used on a vinyl floor, the black color of the adhesive would "bleed through" the vinyl floor and ruin it. So that tells me the black adhesive virtually eliminates the possibility of having a vinyl floor at this location. As a matter of fact the vinyl manufacturers each have a "unique color" to their adhesive and they even include "taggetts" so that they may identify their particular adhesive.

If you cut this floor up into pieces and some of the sections remained adhered to the floor I hope that no one "sanded" leftover sections to smooth out the plywood. If this did happen then the asbestos did become airborne and "Friable."
I hope that you have not thrown away the floor that you ripped up. If you have any sections left over I would strongly recommend that you send them to a certified lab for an analysis.

You can also have a "indoor air quality test" conducted at this location to see if there is any asbestos in the air.

I am astonished at this information from my esteemed colleague. If asbestos is found in house siding, ceiling tile, floor tile, linoleum, adhesive, brake shoes, insulation around pipes, or insulation sprayed in attics or on walls it is still asbestos.
Asbestos is asbestos, period, end of storey!
Quote
asbestos fibres in these materials is nothing like as dangerous as the typical asbestos insullation that we see.
End quote

As stated in some of the "links" that were posted by some of our other members it is stated that any medical conditions brought on by exposure to asbestos would take years to show up.
http://www.nachi.org/asbestos.htm?PHPSESSID=e7aba9739e066ccab1a1bbb79de 3720d
Attached Files

Asbestos Info.pdf (29.4 KB, 2 views)

HS_CS_asbestoshome.pdf (31.1 KB, 1 views)
I should note that I am not, and to my knowledge none of the home inspectors who have answered your inquiries are medical doctors. My best "non-medical advice" is if you are concerned about yourself and your family members that you should all go see a specialist.
I wish you all the luck in the world.

[Joe Farsetta]

As to disposal of the material, it would depend on the state you live in. Here in NY (not NY city), one can simply put the material in plastic garbage bags and put it on the curb for the garbage man to take.

As to the exposure issue, Gerry and Joe H are correct. Frank gave you the clearest description of all, as to the materials.

Chill out. In Manville, NJ (where they used to manufacture asbestos products) it "snowed" raw asbestos 365 days a year.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

This article may help you in the future and some excerpts may help you now.

Hope this helps you.

Having installed many of those products in my day and removing them also, I would have to say that there is no need to get overly exited or endangered.
I would never advocated removals by a homeowner, and would always reccomend removals by Professionals.

http://www.easc.noaa.gov/environ/NEF...il_general.htm


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[Kevin Noland]

You really need not to worry. People are exposed to asbestos unknowingly more than they realize. It would be everyday exposure that would concern me.

I would not worry with a lab test. If the material has been disposed of, and you don't have to worry about handling it anymore, then relax. What's done is done, and you can't change it now with or without a lab test. The truth be known, it probably was asbestos, but a one time exposure shouldn't be harmful.

[whandley]

Originally Posted by Virginia P. Chick

But the material has already been removed by us - stupidly. I am thinking that it was vinyl flooring made before 1978. It was in a big sheet, not tiles, but probably still had asbestos, correct?

Should our home inspector have caught this? The flooring was covered up by carpet at first.

Environmental issues are NOT included in a standard home inspection. The materials would need to be lab tested to determine the presence of asbestos. Even if it were asbestos bearing, it is not necessarily a hazard unless its been damaged, altered and or disturbed.

Don't freak out. Most people who develop health issues from asbestos were working for decades in the mining, ship building and or construction industries. We still encounter asbestos on a daily basis, just driving down the freeway for example.

Refer to an independent licensed asbestos abatement contractor for further inspection and service. They'll be able to advise you as to material make up and whether or not clean up/remediation is needed.

Good Luck!

[James H. Bushart]

I'm not sure about the linoleum, but a client who recently took his tile sample in for testing found that it contained 10% asbestos.