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General Inspection Discussion This is a place for general discussion about the home inspection industry. Try to keep the posts topical, but they need not be as specific as the other areas of this board.

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  #1  
Old 2/6/08, 9:07 AM
Phil Rubenstein Phil Rubenstein is offline
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Default Popcorn Ceiling

It has been brought to my attention by some real estates agents that several home inspectors in my area do not mention or report the possiblity that popcorn ceiling may contain asbestos. The asbestos content in popcorn ceiling is less than 5%. I currently put a blured in my reports as a possiblity but also state that this is beyond the scope of the inspection.
My question, how do you handle this item and what is your rational?
Thanks
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  #2  
Old 2/6/08, 9:18 AM
Joseph Hagarty,  CMI's Avatar
Joseph Hagarty, CMI Joseph Hagarty,  CMI is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

Reference the textured ceilings with a notation that the material may contain asbestos if installed prior to 1977.

Provide a link to the EPA Website for your client to review.

http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html#3

Company in the area that we use for Asbestos Testing / Remediation is:

http://www.eagleih.com/index.html



Joseph P. Hagarty
joseph.hagarty@comcast.net
Main Line Inspections, Inc.
Phone: 610-399-3675
Email: MainLineHI@comcast.net

http://pa.nachi.org/mainlinepa/about.html
http://www.householdinspector.com

National President / NACHI (2003-2004)
NACHI Education Committee Member
PA NACHI Certified Inspector # 01102902
Delaware Licensed Home Inspector # H4-071

Last edited by jhagarty; 2/6/08 at 9:27 AM..
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  #3  
Old 2/6/08, 9:27 AM
Linas Dapkus, CMI's Avatar
Linas Dapkus, CMI Linas Dapkus, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

I worked in the asbestos abatement industry for 15 years and have worked with this material. Any product containing >1% asbestos is classified as Asbestos Containing Material. If you're not sure, defer to further evaluation.



Linas Dapkus, CMI
Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer Level III # 8510
Dapkus Home Inspections
Dapkus Home Inspections Inc. - No Gimmicks, No Kickbacks, Your personal contact information will not be sold to third parties. For 8 years & counting, quality home inspections is all we sell.
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  #4  
Old 2/6/08, 9:36 AM
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David P. Valley David P. Valley is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

This is another reason why I designed my 64-page manual to go along with my report... To keep my clients well informed.

Taken from my manual.......

Today, the most common domestic materials (in your home) that may contain asbestos are

Furnace and Boiler blanket insulation
Stove and Flue pipe insulation
Tape at supply duct connections
Hot water Pipe insulation
Attic insulation (usually vermiculite)
Artificial ashes and embers for use in gas-fired Fireplaces
Roofing Shingles and Siding material
Linoleum floor coverings (usually the 9x 9 tiles)
Plaster patching compounds
Textured paints
Parts of some pre-1979 appliances (e.g. toasters, clothes dryers, hair dryers)
Asbestos was also used as a component of spray applied to textured ceilings. For many years, acoustic-ceiling texture cottage cheese ceilings was a standard feature in many homes, and until the late 1970's, asbestos was a common component of that material. Fortunately, this type of asbestos is not regarded as a significant health hazard unless it is disturbed.

Last edited by dvalley; 2/6/08 at 9:54 AM..
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  #5  
Old 2/6/08, 9:53 AM
Linas Dapkus, CMI's Avatar
Linas Dapkus, CMI Linas Dapkus, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

There are floor coverings (tile, linoleum) not manufactured in the U.S. that are replacing the same stuff. Read the labels and spec sheets.



Linas Dapkus, CMI
Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer Level III # 8510
Dapkus Home Inspections
Dapkus Home Inspections Inc. - No Gimmicks, No Kickbacks, Your personal contact information will not be sold to third parties. For 8 years & counting, quality home inspections is all we sell.
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  #6  
Old 2/6/08, 10:32 AM
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rbrady rbrady is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

I got grief for that from one listing agent a couple of years ago when I brought up the possibility of asbestos in the stipple ceiling coating. She said she never heard of that before. I told here to put "asbestos" and "stipple" in any Internet search and she will find more than she ever wanted to know.

My client was very concerned about asbestos, got it tested, and every sample turner out positive for asbestos. He was very glad that I told him about it. That's who I am working for!
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  #7  
Old 2/7/08, 8:31 AM
Phil Rubenstein Phil Rubenstein is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

Thanks for the input. I shared this info with the broker who was concern and she appreciated it as well. It would seem that we still have home inspectors out their who are willing to skirt standards and cut corners just to make money. Lets hope that they do not become our Achilles heel in the future.
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  #8  
Old 2/7/08, 12:16 PM
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Karl E. Gerhauser Karl E. Gerhauser is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

Here is my report comment:

Sprayed acoustic: Some forms of the ceiling coating installed previous to 1978 have been known to contain asbestos. Testing for hazardous materials is beyond the scope of this inspection. Please check with State Of Oregon For proper testing and/or removal, if removal is desired. Here is a State of Utah Web Site: http://www.eq.state.ut.us/eqair/haps...s/asbstrem.htm, The ceiling has been painted, which is an acceptable encapsulation technique for possible asbestos containing materials. The following website has been set up by the State of Utah to give the proper guidance for removing this type of ceiling material. Please visit the site at..... http://www.eq.state.ut.us/eqair/haps...s/asbstrem.htm

This is if it has been painted, if not that part is removed. FYI, I just did a 1978 home that was tested; it was positive. Hope this helps.
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  #9  
Old 2/7/08, 12:24 PM
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Stephen W. Stanczyk Stephen W. Stanczyk is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgerhauser
Here is my report comment:

Sprayed acoustic: Some forms of the ceiling coating installed previous to 1978 have been known to contain asbestos. Testing for hazardous materials is beyond the scope of this inspection. Please check with State Of Oregon For proper testing and/or removal, if removal is desired. Here is a State of Utah Web Site: http://www.eq.state.ut.us/eqair/haps...s/asbstrem.htm, The ceiling has been painted, which is an acceptable encapsulation technique for possible asbestos containing materials. The following website has been set up by the State of Utah to give the proper guidance for removing this type of ceiling material. Please visit the site at..... http://www.eq.state.ut.us/eqair/haps...s/asbstrem.htm

This is if it has been painted, if not that part is removed. FYI, I just did a 1978 home that was tested; it was positive. Hope this helps.
Don't forget that even though the law went into effect, it allowed applicators to use up their existing supply. It is possible that homes built well into the 1980's are affected.




Stephen Stanczyk
Washington State Licensed Home Inspector # 221
President, Washington Association of Property Inspectors (WAPI)
(253) 241-0602 calls answered until 10pm


Pierce County -Thurston County - King County - Snohomish County
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  #10  
Old 2/7/08, 12:58 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstanczyk
Don't forget that even though the law went into effect, it allowed applicators to use up their existing supply. It is possible that homes built well into the 1980's are affected.
That is right Stephen;

I was working with that stuff well into the 80's.

Here is a little History that I found.

Asbestos | Asbestos Industry

Occupations > Drywall Tapers


History of the Drywall Taper Trade

The drywall taping trade developed during the onset of World War II when construction projects evolved from building plaster based walls to building walls using drywall. Before the Second World War, houses and commercial buildings had walls made of plaster. Building plaster walls required a long multi-step process to complete. The process began by installing a wall and covering it with many small pieces of wood named lath. Several coats of plaster would then be applied to the wall but each coat needed to thoroughly dry before the next could be applied. This resulted in a long construction cycle which could not be tolerated in a wartime situation where the construction of military buildings needed to take place quickly. Drywall was the logical answer to this dilemma.

Sheetrock was invented around 1916 by the US Gypsum Company. Coming in standard 4' x 8' sizes, sheetrock was nothing more than gypsum sandwiched between sheets of durable paper and this easily eliminated the need for plaster. Hence it was given the name drywall. Builders could easily and quickly nail this sheetrock onto a wood frame to create the wall. While there was initial resistance to using drywall because it was thought to be an inferior alternative to plaster, it soon gained popularity because it shaved so much time off the construction project life cycle.

At the conclusion of the war, builders continued to favor drywall because it allowed them to get the job done quicker and it was less expensive. In the 1950's when people began migrating to the suburbs and building their own homes, drywall became the material of choice for wall construction.
Drywall Tapers are Frequently Exposed to Asbestos on the Job

The drywall installation process consists of two parts: installing the drywall and taping. The installation process involves nailing the actual drywall pieces to a wooden frame or wall studs. Taping is needed to create a clean wall with no obvious joints. This is accomplished by applying putty and strips of tape to the joints and this is primarily done by a Drywall Taper.

Using a trowel designed for drywall taping use, drywall tapers apply putty compound into the gaps between the sheets of drywall as well as over nail and screw heads to make them invisible. Next, a drywall taper will apply a thin piece of paper (called tape) onto the putty and smooth it out. This hides joints and nail head indentations. When the putty dries, drywall taper then sands it down to even out the wall. This process is generally performed two to three times to achieve a smooth wall surface. In all instances, however, the process generates a tremendous amount of dust that becomes airborne. It is therefore important for drywall tapers to take the necessary precautions to prevent them from breathing in the dust by using breathing protection masks. Prior to the 1980's putty compound and drywall tape generally contained asbestos.

Because drywall tapers frequently work alongside drywall installers who also generate dust during the installation process, hey are at further increased risk for inhaling asbestos containing dust. Both tapers and installers should always take appropriate precautions against breathing in dangerous dust particles. This is especially true if a project involves the demolition or repair of an old wall installed before 1980.

Drywall taping supplies as mentioned above primarily consisted of joint compound and drywall tape. Other products used in the trade, however, include asbestos cement panels, plaster, and wall patching compounds. Some brand names are durabond joint compound, sabinite acoustical plaster, imperial gypsum cement plaster and quick-treat joint compound.

Mesothelioma, Lung Cancer and Asbestosis are Common Diseases Found in Drywall Tapers

By the middle of the 1970s, there was a clear link between asbestos exposure and diseases of the lung. Occupations such as drywall taping caused trades people to be exposed to asbestos for extended periods of time. It was soon discovered that they were also developing pulmonary diseases (such as mesothelioma, lung cancer and asbestosis) from inhaling asbestos fibers on the job.
These diseases include:
  • Mesothelioma: Form of cancer caused exclusively by exposure to asbestos. It generally affects the lining around the lungs, heart or abdomen. Pleural mesothelioma involves the lining of the lung and is the most common form diagnosed. Peritoneal mesothelioma involves the lining of the stomach and pericardial mesothelioma affects the lining around the heart.
  • Asbestos Related Lung Cancer: Smokers who are exposed to asbestos are at higher risk for developing lung cancer as the asbestos exposure can exacerbate the formation of malignant tumors that block the air passages. Asbestos workers who do not smoke have a fivefold greater risk of developing lung cancer than non-smokers, and those asbestos workers who smoke have a risk that is fifty to ninety times higher than non-smokers.
  • Asbestosis: a pulmonary condition caused exclusively by exposure to asbestos where scar tissue builds up in the lungs resulting in breathing problems and reduced blood flow.
Many times several years can pass between the time a worker stops being exposed to asbestos and the actual asbestos related diagnosis. Sometimes 10 years can lapse or even as many as 30 to 40 years before someone is diagnosed. Common symptoms include: hard time breathing, chest pain, and a persistent dry cough that sometimes shows blood.
Asbestos related illness is not just evident in the people who worked with asbestos containing products. Many times family members were subject to second hand exposure via the asbestos dust that workers brought home on their clothes, shoes and hair.
If you have questions about the drywall taping trade and asbestos exposure, please contact us.

Marcel
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  #11  
Old 2/7/08, 10:12 PM
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whandley whandley is offline
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Default Re: Popcorn Ceiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by prubenstein
It has been brought to my attention by some real estates agents that several home inspectors in my area do not mention or report the possiblity that popcorn ceiling may contain asbestos. The asbestos content in popcorn ceiling is less than 5%. I currently put a blured in my reports as a possiblity but also state that this is beyond the scope of the inspection.
My question, how do you handle this item and what is your rational?
Thanks
http://www.asktooltalk.com/questions...n_ceilings.php

This article states as high as 8%. I've heard from plaster contractors that mixtures as high as 12% have been used and or discovered in structures. I've also been involved in litigation cases where asbestos was present in homes constructed as late as 1989. I believe Russell Ray has discovered asbestos bearing materials in homes built at late as 1990...

Remember, the manufacturing of asbestos building materials was banned in 1979, not the use of millions of tons of pre-existing building materials in inventory throughout the country.
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