Realtor Misquotes - Winter Home Tips

[phinsperger]

I see grain wagons at auctions for only a few hundred dollars.

[rwand1]

Do the wagons climb stairs?
I did note however that my cornstove doesn't use electricity when its not on though.

[phinsperger]

:d
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[msaxton]

actually the qoute about freeze up is pretty acurate, up here in northern minnesota, it is pretty much an unspoken rule that you do not walk or drive a snowmobile etc. over your septic or lines in the winter, because you are compressing the insulating value of the air in the snow and creating a high likelyhood of freeze up. got in trouble years ago delivering propane cuz i walked across someones septic. as far as baseboard heaters using juice when not on, that one does sound like droppings.

[ccarrington]

I agree with Paul, I spent over 12 years in Minot ND, Grand Forks ND and Great Falls MT… Those places are crazy cold!

Snow is actually a very good insulation blanket. This is why Eskimos can survive in the Artic at -60, but the temp in the igloo is a balmy 33+- deg. Even body heat in a properly designed snow cave will raise the inside temp to right about the freezing point. This is the latent heat concept, where the temp will not raise much above freezing because it takes a huge amount of energy to force the snow to change states into water. Anyway, I’ve digresses…

Also a consideration is mineral and soil competition of the earth itself in the affected region. …As you know, heat travels by conduction, convection and even radiation. Never the less, the temp of soil is normally around 55 deg F at 8’ to 10’ deep all year, regardless of outside temp. Some things do influence movement of heat in the earth. Highly compacted soil will conduct heat (or loss of heat) slightly better, than loose fill soil. This concept as applied to blown insulation in an attic is apparent. Mashed insulation just does not insulate as well, and also mashed soil follows in the same way to various degrees.

So if you had extremely compact soil, zero snow cover, and it was -40 for 6 straight weeks, you may freeze a pipe at 4 foot deep. But I’d carefully examine the point the pipe froze up at… is there a 3 foot deep bolder covering the area where the pipe broke… with its top exposed to the ambient air, and to what extent do the minerals in the highly compacted rock conduct heat away from the soil near the pipe.

[jclark1]

1. Electric baseboard heaters are always drawing power even when shut off. If you are not intending to use them shut off the switch at the hydro panel.

Hydro panel? Is that some Canadian thing??

[rwand1]

Hydro is a Canadian term for Electricity. Prior to the advent of nuclear energy, most electricity was generated from falling water. Having to do with water (hydroelectric)[Hydro is Greek hudro from hudor water] - Oxford Dictionary.

So even today Canadians refer to electricity regardless how it is generated as Hydro.

Another Canadianism.

[Ralph Smith]

When working on a mall project in Watertown NY in the 80's, the site required fill in an area adjacent to a section with an erected steel frame. The two wks. prior to concrete panels being hung, dumptrucks streamed through during single digit high temps. After hanging the panels there was a five day wait for the heated space to thaw the frozen ground that drilling confirmed was 11' deep. Yeah, for whatever reason, traffic does push the frost deeper.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by rsmith5

Yeah, for whatever reason, traffic does push the frost deeper.

Yes, that's for sure. I've had similar experiences with driveways.

Any time we would put water lines under them we went about 6'-8' and covered the top and sides with 2" rigid insulation. That worked well.

[Russel Ray]

Someone posted that #2 is true, but I can't speak to frost. In fact, perhaps someone should define frost for me.

#1 is true, but it's true of virtually everything in your home. If something is plugged in and has control knobs, which I think baseboard heaters do, then it is always using electricity. Look at your television, your DVD player, etc. Most of them now have digital displays with the time on them. That's electricity doing that, folks. How do you think the appliance know what we do when we push the ON button? Electricity.

There was an article by San Diego Gas & Electric a few years ago that discussed this topic because a SDG&E user had come back from a vacation only to find something like a $100 utility bill. They had "winterized" the home, having shut down everything, unplugging the refrigerator and other "unnecessary" appliances, etc. However, they had left the alarm system on, as well as everything that had programming or clock settings. I think SDG&E stated that a 1,500 SF home with standard appliances (dishwasher, microwave, television, etc.) would have a $25 electric bill even if nothing was ever "used." Now that's a nice business. Having everyone pay me $25 each month for not "using" anything.

[jclark1]

digital displays use such a minute amount of power your vcr clock for ex. could be on for years and not cost a dollar.
As for electric radiant baseboard heat it's either on or off.

[rwand1]

It is common to find electrical appliances which are called Vampire energy users. They have stand-by mode (powered down) for quick start-ups. Computers and LCD screens are examples.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by rray

Someone posted that #2 is true, but I can't speak to frost. In fact, perhaps someone should define frost for me.

#1 is true, but it's true of virtually everything in your home. If something is plugged in and has control knobs, which I think baseboard heaters do, then it is always using electricity. Look at your television, your DVD player, etc. Most of them now have digital displays with the time on them. That's electricity doing that, folks. How do you think the appliance know what we do when we push the ON button? Electricity.

There was an article by San Diego Gas & Electric a few years ago that discussed this topic because a SDG&E user had come back from a vacation only to find something like a $100 utility bill. They had "winterized" the home, having shut down everything, unplugging the refrigerator and other "unnecessary" appliances, etc. However, they had left the alarm system on, as well as everything that had programming or clock settings. I think SDG&E stated that a 1,500 SF home with standard appliances (dishwasher, microwave, television, etc.) would have a $25 electric bill even if nothing was ever "used." Now that's a nice business. Having everyone pay me $25 each month for not "using" anything.

Up here it is even higher We have many charges to debt lowering ,delievery hook up and other charges both for electric and Gas .
To find the cost of energy used a person has to look close to the bill and it is there.
Electric heater up here use no hydro if not turned up just like me electric kettle not turn on no cost for juice.
The TV, VCR, ECT use very little to stay warm and the life is extended by noy unpluging them.

The same for my car even if I do not use it I still have to pay for my insurance and the license and parking and deprectiation.
Them's the fact of life pat it or lose it.
Roy sr

[William J. Decker]

Sometimes we are called upon to save Realtors from themselves.

Had an inspection, not too long ago. Old furnace in a small room showing yellowing of the flame. Yellowing increased when the door to the room was closed. Insufficient combustion air.

Expained the problem to the client, but the Realtor chimed right in, "Oh, that's no problem. Just leave the door open and keep this basement window cracked."

Later, I took him aside and explained, "Do you really want to assume the liability of this guy dies as a result of following your suggestion? Are you a licensed and qualified and insured HVAC tech? Why would you want to open yourself up to that liability? Let and expert, one who knows what he is doing and has way more liability insurance that you do make the call and take the heat."

He was floored, but had to agree with me. What he saw as an offhand comment in an attempt to make the problem go away was actually his making a recommendation outside of his area of expertize that could get his client killed and him sued down to his skivvys.

Sometimes, helping the Realtor is also a way to help our clients.

Hope this helps.

[Timothy J. Gardner]

Corn stoves in Virginia make whiskey! They also attract ATF agents.

TG