Standards question

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Could a foundation crack be a major defect yet not affect habitability of the home?

No, not in my opinion. Obviously there are different levels of concern with a crack. But once it reached "major" then it would affect the habitability...

A simple crack is just a crack and is not a Major Concern. One that shows signs of settling would be a major concern, because that would affect the habitability of the home... especially if the wall collapsed.

[Nick Gromicko]

Can you think of a defect that would affect the home's value but not its habitability?

[mnahrgang]

Yep... Broken window seals. Very expensive to repair or replace, but don't affect the habitability at all. Primarily a cosmetic issue.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Can you think of a defect that would affect the home's value but not its habitability?

Bad AC compressor

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

Yep... Broken window seals. Very expensive to repair or replace, but don't affect the habitability at all. Primarily a cosmetic issue.

Doesn't that also affect the energy efficiency?

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by rmaday

Doesn't that also affect the energy efficiency?

Yea... but not that much and it still doesn't affect habitability.

[Nick Gromicko]

I like "material" best, as the legal definition of it is much more narrow.

InterNACHI's SOP's definition of "material" is even more narrow:

1.2. A Material Defect is a condition of a residential real property, or any portion of it, that would have a significant, adverse impact on the value of the real property, or that involves an unreasonable risk to people on the property. The fact that a structural element, system or subsystem is near, at or beyond the end of the normal useful life of such a structural element, system or subsystem is not by itself a material defect.

And then InterNACHI's agreeement (between inspector and client) even further limits the inspector's duty by requiring the inspector to only report those defects that he/she deemed material:

1. INSPECTOR agrees to perform a visual inspection of the home/building and to provide CLIENT with a written inspection report identifying the defects that INSPECTOR both observed and deemed material.

Nothing can stop the super-human strength of InterNACHI's SOP/Agreement combo.

[Blaine Wiley]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Nothing can stop the super-human strength of InterNACHI's SOP/Agreement combo.

You stated in an earlier post that the combo has never been beaten in court. I suppose the logical question to that is, when has it been tested in court, and in what states?

[Nick Gromicko]

Some member gets sued (and usually settles) about every 3-4 weeks at InterNACHI. One of the reasons the plaintiff settles is this combo (described above). Oddly, most claims involve items pointed out by the inspector or items not required to be inspected.

Anyway, not only has the combo never lost in any court in N. America, but there has never been any attorney ever that has felt they could legally "top" that language. We've had hundreds (that I know of, maybe more) of attorneys who have looked at, and contacted us about our agreement in drafting one for their client. Of course they all add their favorite disclosures, disclaimers, and fluff... but they always leave the paragraphs I referenced above. Our attorneys even have strategies lined up to help them win.

Every now and then we get cousin Marvin who has a law license and decides to write a "custom" agreement from scratch (thus discarding the thousands of legal man hours we've already put into ours). I attend every legal session regarding all InterNACHI's documents and have my head around them, so if you post one of those custom agreements here... I'll be happy to point out to you and your attorney what is wrong with it, and explain why it is wrong.

[Joe Farsetta]

Mark,

No, not in my opinion. Obviously there are different levels of concern with a crack. But once it reached "major" then it would affect the habitability...

How can you possibly make this statement with any degree of credibility? Please define a major crack. Would a 1/2" wide vertical crack carry the same structural significance as a 1/2" step crack, or a 1/2" horizontal crack? What about an 1/8" creck with lateral displacement, as opposed to a 1/2" crack with no displacement? How about a 1/8" crack with water pouring through it, versus a 1/2" crack with no water? Which cracks affect, or potentially affect, a home's habitability? For that matter, what legally allows you to discern a minor from a major crack? Are you a PE?

You say that window seals do not affect a dwelling's habitability. How about a thermal leak bad enough to have caused the window frame to swell, and rendering it too difficult for an elderly person to open, AND this window is the sole egress window in the room. Has this affected habitibility? Yes it has...

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Mark,



How can you possibly make this statement with any degree of credibility? Experience. Please define a major crack. One that indicates a structural concern over normal minor concrete shrinkage cracking. Would a 1/2" wide vertical crack carry the same structural significance as a 1/2" step crack, or a 1/2" horizontal crack? What about an 1/8" creck with lateral displacement, as opposed to a 1/2" crack with no displacement? How about a 1/8" crack with water pouring through it, versus a 1/2" crack with no water? Which cracks affect, or potentially affect, a home's habitability? Every example you sited would be major. You overlooked the obvious for minor. For that matter, what legally allows you to discern a minor from a major crack? Are you a PE? Irrelevant questions.On the same note, what legally allows us to determine value of a concern. Are we appraisers?

You say that window seals do not affect a dwelling's habitability. How about a thermal leak bad enough to have caused the window frame to swell, and rendering it too difficult for an elderly person to open, AND this window is the sole egress window in the room. Has this affected habitibility? Yes it has... No it hasn't. If the window won't open, and tis is the sole egress that is a different concern other than a simple ugly broken seal. Two different scenarios.

Is that clear enough and simple enough for you?