6.8 Million paid for a #5 ...

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Hubbert is the best model we have, are your "beliefs going to be a problem again Michael, should we take this straight "downstairs"?

Try plan "C" reduce consumption of fosil fuels and develope (or hasten developement) of sustainable energies.

Regards

Gerry

Gerry my "beliefs" aside, you have not provided much of substance for consideration.
Your belief that we are running out of oil comes from somewhere doesn't it?

Renewables and alternative fuels will come when the time is right.

In the mean time we should drill away.
We'd be fools to let the enviro's control energy policy.IMHO.

[klott]

frankly,I don't believe mankind has even dented the earths oil pools in just over a hundred years, and I have seen suggestions by geologist that agree. It has been awhile, but if googled, I bet they could be located. Oil being produced naturally was not a one time occurance, more is being made all the time. I know some claim it takes millions of years, but they said the same about coal also.

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by klott

China's oil will come from Florida.

I doubt it Ken, but stranger things have been known. The problem is those who think drilling in FL or Alaska is the cure, remember the growing economies of the 3rd world will make the western worlds energy consumption seem small.

Regards

Gerry

[klott]

Gerry, China has already supplied Cuba with a billion dollars to drill for it in the Florida straights.

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Gerry my "beliefs" aside, you have not provided much of substance for consideration.

Michael, you have provided none!!

Your belief that we are running out of oil comes from somewhere doesn't it?

I have stated my sources, where does your belief come from?

Renewables and alternative fuels will come when the time is right.

What, when gas is $10.00 a gallon??

In the mean time we should drill away.

Sure, thats a rational approach, what we don't know can't hurt us?

We'd be fools to let the enviro's control energy policy.IMHO.

Michael, I have never considered myself real environmentaly friendly, but I am sure we can't go on for to long in your mindset.

Regards

Gerry

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

....... The problem is those who think drilling in FL or Alaska is the cure, remember the growing economies of the 3rd world will make the western worlds energy consumption seem small.

Regards

Gerry

Not a cure but part of a multifaceted solution.

If we don't drill they(3rd world) will have no chance at prosperity.

The present world ecomomy will run on oil for at least the next century.

[klott]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Not a cure but part of a multifaceted solution.

If we don't drill they(3rd world) will have no chance at prosperity. China' going to get their own oil from our shores while we have to buy it from others, go figure.

The present world ecomomy will run on oil for at least the next century.

Maddening.

[Blaine Wiley]

Somewhere I have an article from 2004 or 2005 written by Peter O'Dell of Erasmus University that states we have added 1500 billion barrels of oil to the world oil reserves since 1970, while world consumption over that time totaled 800 billion barrels. I could be incorrect, but I believe that Hubbert's peak was also based upon our ability to recover only 20% of the oil from any given reserve, whereas today we can recover about 35% and some oil industry folks have stated that if oil is at 80 bucks a barrel it is then profitable to recover up to 55% or so. That amount of extra recovery would certainly add to the total reserves.

I also read an article some time back that oil companies (yes those dreaded bastards that make somewhere between 7 and 9 cents per gallon net profit) stated that they are finding that oil fields that were thought to be dry have actually been refilling. That may have been in the WSJ. In that case it may back up the 50 year theory that oil is not "fossil fuel" from dinosaurs, but rather an abiotic process from molten lava and other geologic stuff way on down there in the earth.

China coming into the oil age will certainly increase usage over the next decades, but technology should also make it able to recover more oil from each well.

I'm all for other types of energy, but ethanol ain't one of them. When it becomes profitable for someone to "discover" an alternative fuel, you can bet it will happen quickly!

Just my thoughts for the night.

Oh, and none of this helps the wallet at $3.43 for premium!

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bwiley

....I'm all for other types of energy, but ethanol ain't one of them. When it becomes profitable for someone to "discover" an alternative fuel, you can bet it will happen quickly!

Just my thoughts for the night.

That sounds like a lot of common sense your using there.

The rest was great too!

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Not a cure but part of a multifaceted solution.

Back it up with some facts, or a least some good opinions

If we don't drill they(3rd world) will have no chance at prosperity.

Thats total crap, there are many viable, ie. sustainable reasourses out their, I don't see the Western world rushing to bring the 3rd world into the developed world anytime soon do you???

The present world ecomomy will run on oil for at least the next century.

Says who?? support that with some recognisable marco economic data

Regards

Gerry

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by bwiley

Somewhere I have an article from 2004 or 2005 written by Peter O'Dell of Erasmus University that states we have added 1500 billion barrels of oil to the world oil reserves since 1970, while world consumption over that time totaled 800 billion barrels. I could be incorrect, but I believe that Hubbert's peak was also based upon our ability to recover only 20% of the oil from any given reserve, whereas today we can recover about 35% and some oil industry folks have stated that if oil is at 80 bucks a barrel it is then profitable to recover up to 55% or so. That amount of extra recovery would certainly add to the total reserves.

Agreed, thats where I started on this more oil doesn't = cheaper prices

I also read an article some time back that oil companies (yes those dreaded bastards that make somewhere between 7 and 9 cents per gallon net profit) stated that they are finding that oil fields that were thought to be dry have actually been refilling. That may have been in the WSJ. In that case it may back up the 50 year theory that oil is not "fossil fuel" from dinosaurs, but rather an abiotic process from molten lava and other geologic stuff way on down there in the earth.

May or may not be proven, hasn't been yet

China coming into the oil age will certainly increase usage over the next decades, but technology should also make it able to recover more oil from each well.

Yes but at an ever increasing price (unless there is a very major change in the cost centers of the way we produce)

I'm all for other types of energy, but ethanol ain't one of them. When it becomes profitable for someone to "discover" an alternative fuel, you can bet it will happen quickly!

Agreed, ethanol is a sop to the liberals, it is not the answer, the yield per acre is much too small

Oh, and none of this helps the wallet at $3.43 for premium!

Get ready for much worse

Regards

Gerry

[Blaine Wiley]

Actually, Brazil was smart. They have an ethanol program that has made them energy independent.

The difference is that they don't have to cater to the farm subsidy crowd, therefore the ethanol is from sugar cane. Sugar ethanol is much easier to produce, takes much, much less land, and is more efficient taking about 80% less energy to produce than corn based ethanol. Oh, did I say that it takes much, much less land?

Too bad we cant just do sensible things. Make the darn ethanol from sugar cane, and drop the price of my steak and tortilla chips back down!

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by mlarson
Not a cure but part of a multifaceted solution.

Back it up with some facts, or a least some good opinions

Oil will remain the the primary energy source along with coal until many more nuclear power plants are built. The alternatives are still very pricey and not cost competitive without government subsidies to support them.

If we don't drill they(3rd world) will have no chance at prosperity.

Thats total crap, there are many viable, ie. sustainable reasourses out their, I don't see the Western world rushing to bring the 3rd world into the developed world anytime soon do you???

What those viable sustainable resources?
Do you blame the Western world for third world poverty and lack of development?
You should know the real reason.

The present world economy will run on oil for at least the next century.

Says who?? support that with some recognisable marco economic data

Do the math Gerry. There is plenty of oil and even more coal and no viable alternatives in the near to midterm future. But if you think differently please explain.