ASHI members going bullistic over CMI Terms of Use.

[Ted Allen]

Is this the same exam that Gerry and others worked on, or is it a new one?

[Nick Gromicko]

The CMI in http://www.nachi.org/cmi.htm is one we've worked on for a couple years. Gerry created one or two himself as have several schools. All of them are very advanced and should not be used as an entrance or MINIMUM standard licensing exam like the simple NHIE.

[Jay Schwartz]

Burkeson brings up some good points. I cannot support a program that is nothing more than a marketing ploy. Now if the program was about EDUCATION like the GRI of Real Estate I could support that. But I would be absolutely opposed to a $200 buy a CD and get your certification. I would like to see Russ Myers, the education committee, Gerry Beaumont, and the MAB have all input as to what goes into this EDUCATION program. To think that your a master by performing 250 inspections is a bunch of garbage. To pass the NHIE is an accomplishment but not the end all be all.

Just because I have a Masters in Business Administration does not make me better than someone who did not seek the education. It does however separate me IF the job I am interviewing for requires it.

CMI in its current form is dead on arrival. Alot more thought and execution needs to go into this before I would take it seriously.

By the way, how much is the Awards banquet gonna cost per plate?

[Nick Gromicko]

CMI is ALL about education. In fact it is mostly education. Read http://www.nachi.org/cmirequirements.htm

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by gromicko

The CMI in http://www.nachi.org/cmi.htm is one we've worked on for a couple years. Gerry created one or two himself as have several schools. All of them are very advanced and should not be used as an entrance or MINIMUM standard licensing exam like the simple NHIE.

I have taken the one Gerry posted a link to some months ago. I agree that it is a better test than the NHIE, but it is not really any more difficult.

JMO

[Nick Gromicko]

Todd: Exactly... that is why CMI does not rely on merely one exam (and certainly not the comical NHIE). CMI requirements rely in part on Education, in part on Competence, and in part on Experience. It is a masterpiece.

http://www.nachi.org/cmirequirements.htm

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by tallen

I have taken the one Gerry posted a link to some months ago. I agree that it is a better test than the NHIE, but it is not really any more difficult.

JMO

Todd and others, the CMI exam link that Nick refers to is an older version, I have actually built serveral versions, the latest of which now has 1,000 questions covering 16 different topics including ethics and standards of practice, maybe I will post a limited time link to it, but I will have to edit some sensitive information from its intro first, and If I do so it will only be in Members only and for a short time.

Regards

Gerry

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Todd: Exactly... that is why CMI does not rely on merely one exam (and certainly not the comical NHIE). CMI requirements rely in part on Education, in part on Competence, and in part on Experience. It is a masterpiece.

I was not referring to the CMI requirements only the tests.

All of them are very advanced and should not be used as an entrance or MINIMUM standard licensing exam like the simple NHIE.

This seems to imply that the CMI tests are far superior and therefore much harder than the NHIE. So, I tought I would give my oppinion of the 2 tests, but we all know about oppinions----

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Todd and others, the CMI exam link that Nick refers to is an older version, I have actually built serveral versions, the latest of which now has 1,000 questions covering 16 different topics including ethics and standards of practice, maybe I will post a limited time link to it, but I will have to edit some sensitive information from its intro first, and If I do so it will only be in Members only and for a short time.

Regards

Gerry

Gerry,
Thats great
I look forward to it. I am sure it will be an excellent test as the first one was pretty darn good.

[jmichalski]

Gerry,

Please do not be offended by my vocal opposition to teh CMI. I am sure the test is of excellent quality - the decription and methods of development alone appear to be of the top quality.

The CMI is NOT "all about education" as Nick would like to think. It is partly about education, but only so far as taking one class and retaining the information long enough to pass the test can qualify as education. Now a series of tests (as is required for the ICC Building Inspector title)....that's all about education!

The NHIE is not that hard, fellas. It isn't a joke as Nick suggests, but it isn't even the Home Inspection equivilent of the SAT. Let's stop making it more than it is. It is a standardized test. Big deal. I took it, I passed, I don't even market it because it is such an insignificant qualification.

Am I glad I did? Sure. But it didn't make me any better an inspector than I was the day before I took it. In fact, it will mean less than my termite and radon certs will since I know that those will generate revenue and can be effectively marketed!

Now ICC Certified - THAT will mean something to me. That is a lot of education and testing to go through and I am certain I will come out of it a better inspector than when I began.

CMI? I think the test will be an improvement over the NHIE, but everything about it bothers me, especially the fact it will segregate NACHI members.

Not exactly the equivelent of a master-level comprehension of concepts.

The time and inspection thresholds are very low for something that bears the title "Master".

[Nick Gromicko]

Joe M: I agree with your entire last post with only one minor exception.

Not all exams/quizes are meant to determine competency only. Every exam and quiz we have has an additional and very EDUCATIONAL purpose... that is to alert the exam taker to where he/she is weak.

The clearest example of this in action (a quiz being educational) is our own Standards of Practice Quiz which is NOT EVEN GRADED. Its not graded because its purpose is NOT to permit the taker to demonstrate competency to a bureaucat. Its purpose is 100% EDUCATIONAL. It educates the taker as to where he/she may either be over or under inspecting.

Here it is: http://www.nachi.org/sopquiz.htm

When one views quizes and exams (especially ours which reveal taker weakness) as educational... one must then see CMI's requirements http://www.nachi.org/cmirequirements.htm in a different light.

CMI then becomes (among other requirements)...

• an exam,
• a course,
• a quiz,
• 48 hours of continuing education,
• another course,
• some more quizes,
• another course,
• some more quizes,
• another exam,
• another exam,
• an educational seminar,
• another course,
• some more quizes,
• and another exam.

Sure sounds like "education" to me.

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by jmichalski

Gerry,

Please do not be offended by my vocal opposition to teh CMI. I am sure the test is of excellent quality - the decription and methods of development alone appear to be of the top quality.

The CMI is NOT "all about education" as Nick would like to think. It is partly about education, but only so far as taking one class and retaining the information long enough to pass the test can qualify as education. Now a series of tests (as is required for the ICC Building Inspector title)....that's all about education!

The NHIE is not that hard, fellas. It isn't a joke as Nick suggests, but it isn't even the Home Inspection equivilent of the SAT. Let's stop making it more than it is. It is a standardized test. Big deal. I took it, I passed, I don't even market it because it is such an insignificant qualification.

Am I glad I did? Sure. But it didn't make me any better an inspector than I was the day before I took it. In fact, it will mean less than my termite and radon certs will since I know that those will generate revenue and can be effectively marketed!

Now ICC Certified - THAT will mean something to me. That is a lot of education and testing to go through and I am certain I will come out of it a better inspector than when I began.

CMI? I think the test will be an improvement over the NHIE, but everything about it bothers me, especially the fact it will segregate NACHI members.

Not exactly the equivelent of a master-level comprehension of concepts.

The time and inspection thresholds are very low for something that bears the title "Master".

Michael, I am in no way offended, if fact you may be surprised to know that I am personally not a fan of CMI in its present form, that is not to say that it is worthless rather that it still has someways to go.

Nick brought up the example of using an exam myself and the education committee had previously developed, and I do strongly feel that standardized testing should be a part of the CMI model (hell we have the best model in the industry to do it with).

I do agree somewhat with the concept that all industry designations are pointless unless they are like the ICC certifications accepted by all parties connected to property inspection.

Like yourself I believe that anything including the word "Master" should be of a demostrably higher standard. Which in my case I translate as members who wish to achieve CMI status being able to demonstrate a level of knowledge above that of an entry level inspector.

BTW if you care to search the old board, this is the position I have held for 2 years now.

Regards

Gerry

[jmichalski]

OK, Nick. I will concede that it does sound like several courses, not a single course. I am not sure that taking several courses, or a series of them (or even 48 hours worht) was clearly written into the CMI requiremetns you linked to.

If you are counting the NACHI membership requirements as quizzes and courses, then I think we should make a serious attempt to separate the concepts (since this is an additional designation) and talk about only what relates to the CMI (membership is a pre-requisite, so those courses/tests are not part of this discussion).

Gerry, I agree more with you that it should be a top-level, difficult to obtain designation and should have a heavy educational coponent. I would like to see it modeled after the ICC certification (which, by the way, does NOT force inspectors to take time off to travel to attend a physical class anywhere!).

I would still prefer to see the idea dry up and blow away.....

[Blaine Wiley]

I am with Gerry, and I've never like the term "Master".

[Jay Schwartz]

Joe M:

Thanks. VOTE_FOR_CMI_NOW!