And yet another new CMI formula proposal (July, 2006). This one should satisfy all.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

There are a lot of unaffliated HI who do not belong to any kind of association and are often the same ones with the $99 inspections. The realtors usually love them because they do not create waves and write thin reports. They are everywhere as attested on this BB. They just find out the norm in their areas and undercut the prices. We have a local one who brags of doing 6 or more inspections per day. Report is about 4 pages long, hand scribbled notes, no photos. "$99- Outhouse or the Whitehouse" There is another they refer to as the "Point and Shoot" inspector. He walks thru the house, points to a discrepancy and shoots off his mouth. "Your need to fix that" while the client has to write their own notes, feverously scribbling to keep up. Better bring your own camera.

[Dale Duffy]

That is what the problem is, inspectors charging so little there is no way they can stay in business. And then you have the ones charging just enough to stay afloat. The general public could give a rats ***** about logos.

All the manufactured logos (CMI, or any other) in the world won't change that.

There are so many inspectors in Arizona charging less than 200.00 for a 1800 sq. ft. home its pathetic (some NACHI members).

Commercial inspections is the only way to make any money I consider decent, unless all the inspectors raised their prices, more logos won't help.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Dale,
You are correct. We still do a good amount of business with those who understand the value of a good inspection over costs but many of the Realtors push the low ball inspectors especially to the first time buyers who are on a budget. One of the reasons we do take payment at closings is because the buyer can then afford the inspection because it doesn't come "out of pocket" so to speak. I do not let the Realtor handle any of that transaction though. I learned early on to do my own dealings with the closing company / agent. I make it a point of getting all that information from the Realtor and talking to the closing agent myself and send them my Invoice. By taking payment at closing we have often gotten the jobs that would have gone to someone else just because of price. I have told priceshoppers on the phone when they call "Why would you want to hire the cheapest guy in town for possibly the most important financial decision of your life?" This is usually followed by a long silent pause then "I didn't think of it that way."

I agree with your assessment about Commercial inspections. Virtually untapped in many areas.

[lcapaul]

Richard L. Moore ""You didn't want to create a tiered system, so instead you have created a designation, open to all including other orgs and members of none, that gives the "appearance" of superiority over plain old NACHI inspectors? So, now Joe Public compares two web-sites and finds one with a "certified home inspector" icon (aka NACHI) and the other with a "certified master inspector" icon. All other things being equal, he is very likely to choose the master over the NACHI member even though the qualifications of both may be exactly the same. The NACHI member loses work because his competition has purchased a "seperate" flashy title and he doesn't wish to. Is that not "damaging fellow NACHI members" by supplying this new, supposedly "private" tier?""

I totally agree, I am a Newby with only 4 Inspections under my belt, but I have somewhere around 300 CE hours, for $175 I can be a Certified Master Inspector, I didn't have to do any Inspections to do that. Other Inspectors willing to pay the $175 for a 3 letter Logo can use that CMI as a gimic to make the customer beleive they are "superior" Inspectors.

Myself I would rather go down to the local Police Station and have them perform a Criminal Background Check on me and then come up with my own Logo and Title, then I could then say that I was "certified" by the City , County, or State, I could even create my own Web Site showing customers my "Certification Standards", I could even come up with a catchy Title, but I would still only hve 4 Inspections...or rather 7 , I have 3 more scheduled.

What Nick has done with his CMI program is to create another HI Association to compete with NACHI and Snowy Mountain Home Inspection, he's making the word "Certified" meaningless.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Greg, I am so behind you on this I'm already pushing your cart and I don't even know what the cart is.

I can't say too much yet, but this product has the potential to allow the home inspector to double or triple his income within his own market and there is more then enough work for everyone, a completely untapped resource. More to come.

[Nick Gromicko]

Lewis, you are a bit mistaken. Let me explain.

CMI is no different than reporting software or websites or search engine optimization or mold certification or moisture meters or credit card processing services or radon kits or E&O insurance or microwave oven leak detectors or bla bla bla.

It is simply something I've made available that might or might not be of use to your business. You can take advantage of everything out there (some inspectors do), you can take advantage of nothing out there (some inspectors do). You decide.

I can proffer quite a few very compelling arguments for applying for CMI... but I'm not here to sell it... but rather make the professional designation available to those who want it.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Nick

Yes, this is what CMI is.

Lets let it get modified and let it role

rlb

[Nick Gromicko]

Amen.

You see, all business is simply the art of making positive trades.

For example: When you run an ad... if the profit from the jobs generated from the ad exceed the cost of the ad... by all means keep running the ad. You've found a machine whereby you put in one dollar and out comes two dollars. If the profit from the jobs generated by the ad comes up less than the cost of the ad... by all means don't run the ad again. You've found a machine whereby you put in one dollar and out comes 50 cents. All business decisions are not much more complicated than that.

If you think that possessing a professional designation like "Certified Master Inspector", being able to tout that you passed a criminal background check, and being listed forever on one of the top inspection sites in the industry in terms of traffic http://www.nachi.org/alexasitecomparison.htm, a site with very little noise (stuff other than a way to find your contact information ), a site with very few other competing inspectors... is worth a one time fee of $175... apply. If you don't think so, don't.

It is nothing personal... it is just business... actually it is just simple math.

[rmoore]

Nick…I think this will be my last post on this subject as it’s more than a little frustrating and I’m really too busy writing reports for this stuff, but…

Unless I’m very dense (not something I’m often accused of being) your last two posts define your conception of CMI as a marketing tool to be used to garner more business. Spin it any way you wish but, as I don’t see any way for it to generate more actual homes to be inspected, my “simple math” equates that added business being a minus for non-CMIs. As NACHI is now, supposedly, the largest organization, doesn’t that also mean that the largest group that will lose is the general NACHI membership? Your “compelling” option is for everyone (all & sundry) to buy a ticket and cram on board the CMI train. The trouble with that, of course, is that when almost everyone is a CMI…well…the advantage kind of disappears, doesn’t it? When “Master” becomes the simply ordinary, everyone will lose and the public perception of home inspectors as a whole will take a nasty dive.

The only winner will be NACMI, your new, “no tier”, home inspector association that will have collected thousands of fees.

I’m going to end my participation in this mess with an apology.

To the CMIs who might be considered “masters” by their peers (and I know there are a few) and to those on the CMI board (particularly my good friend Gerry Beaumont) who envisaged CMI as a designation the public could truly rely on…I’m sorry! My beef is not with you.

I will still read, and occasionally try to help, in the tech sections only…but basically, I’m out of here!
Good night and good luck.

[lcapaul]

Nick: "CMI is no different than reporting software or websites or search engine optimization or mold certification or moisture meters or credit card processing services or radon kits or E&O insurance or microwave oven leak detectors or bla bla bla."

Nick, that statement is so asinine and ridiculous that it's difficult to argue against. Tell a Master Plumber, Carpenter, or Electrician that their "Master" designantion is no different than the tools they use to do their jobs and that they should have been able to purchase it for $175.

Nick:"I can proffer quite a few very compelling arguments for applying for CMI... but I'm not here to sell it... but rather make the professional designation available to those who want it."

The only argument you can profer for CMI in its present state is that it is an Advertising gimic, it is not a "Professional Designation".

Maybe I should send you the $175, who could better benefit from the "Professional Designation" as a CMI than a Newby Inspector, why would any customer or Realtor ask me how many Inspections I had performed if they saw that I was a "Certified Master Inspector".

A couple of months ago I got into a big argument with several ITA instructors in Seattle over their bashing of NACHI and their hard sell of ASHI, I'm glad they never brought up CMI, I would have lost my argument.

Myself I like my Idea better, I can create my own "Master Certification" with my own meanliess criteria, I can get my own criminal background check done and take the proof that I have met my own criteria to Local Notary Republic and then I could say that I was "State Certified" under the rules of whatever I chose to name my "Certifying " organization, all for less than $175.

I have to admit that I do use a gimic in my advertising, the NACHI member Logo, I joined NACHI more than a year ago for much the same reason as many others, to avoid the "Canidate" designation required by ASHI, which they are considering dropping. I'm glad I did, it has provided me with access to many great Inspectors and the knowledge they freely and willingly share and which I have taken advantage of while recovering from a couple of surgeries on my leg, now I'm up and running and many of those great Inspectors will be getting plenty of questions from me.

I'm glad to see you are attempting to modify the criteria for buying the CMI designation, but at best you will have only created another Inspector Association that will be in direct competition with NACHI and my Business. In its present form I feel some what compelled to explain to Realtors and Customers what the CMI designation really is, a gimic.

[Blaine Wiley]

I would like to know why someone could perform 1000 bad inspections, yet if they magically have 200 hours of classes the 800 inspections they perform are suddenly not bad, or if someone has only the 150 hours of education presently required the inspections will be performed as a master.

My neighbor is a retired master electrician. It took him years as an apprentice to obtain his journeyman designation, then more years and classes and tests to obtain his master designation. He is very proud because of the effort and ability it took to become a master. He has said that less than 10% of all electricians are masters, therefore the title has clout.

Determining who is a master in this field is difficult. My preference (not that anyone has asked) is along the lines of:

Minimum five years in the business
Minimum 2500 home inspections performed
Minimum 250 hours of education, of which 90 are in the past three years
Pass a thorough knowledge exam (Gerry has an excellent one)
Background check
Drug test
Ongoing 30 hrs per year of CE

At least with these requirements, 75% of inspectors wouldn't immediately qualify, couldn't simply take a few weeks of classes to qualify, and the designation would have some meaning.

And BTW, I don't qualify under that criteria after 11+ years and 5000+ inspections, because I would fall short in the last three years of CE. I would certainly work to achieve this designation though, and would happily pay more than $175 for the cert.

The original 1000 inspections/hours of CE formula was a compromise between John Bowman, Nick and me. Although in both my mind and John's it falls short, it gave some sort of meaning to the title.

[Nick Gromicko]

Richard, I'm quite certain you are wrong. Under the proposal which was outlined in the opening post of this thread:

Number of continuing education hours completed in lifetime + number of weeks in business + number of inspections performed in lifetime must be equal to or greater than 1,000.

We don't see any evidence of "Simply ordinary inspectors cramming on board the CMI train."

I track nearly every inspector in the industry and am quite certain that this formula equates to no more than (probably less than) 5% of the industry.

And Lewis' argument that something is a "gimic" simply because I've worked to make it inexpensive is not logical.

[Nick Gromicko]

BTW: A college degree is also nothing more than an educational-based professional designation often used by the holder of the designation to acquire a job.

[Nick Gromicko]

Here, think about this:

Inspectors that qualify for CMI, the top 5% of our industry... mostly DON'T NEED MORE WORK... they can't do any more. They need to raise their fees so the rest of us can as well. CMI is going to harm non-CMIs by taking away work from them LESS than it is going to help non-CMIs by raising fees for all.

Any industry's fees are pulled up from the top. The top is the ceiling we all should want to see lifted.

[Blaine Wiley]

Originally Posted by gromicko

BTW: A college degree is also nothing more than an educational-based professional designation often used by the holder of the designation to acquire a job.

Yes, but a college degree doesn't qualify someone as a master in the field, it just gets them in the door, maybe.

I won't go and get my shoulder and elbow operated on by someone who only has classroom education. I want an experienced surgeon!!!!!

And I'm all for raising fees!