ASTM SoP Dead

[John McKenna]

NAHI announces

An organizational meeting of industry stakeholders occurred in West Conshohocken, Pennsylvania today to discuss whether to create an ASTM committee to begin the formation of a national standard of practice for home inspection. The result of this meeting is that a national standard will not move forward at this time.

http://www.nahi.org/public/503.cfm

Near the end of this page it says

We believe that our industry can stand for something other than the singular interests we see every day when reading the home inspection message boards and blogs.

I wonder which message board they are talking about?

[John Cahill]

The entire ASTM SoP thing is a joke. The first meeting was held at a NAHI seminar where of course NAHI would have the majority vote. The second meeting was held in Philly where ASHI would have the majority vote (90 I believe). Its all so stupid.
IF ASTM saw money in writing an SOP it would be done and it does not make a rats rear end what NACHI, ASHI or NAHI thinks about it.
A SoP is something that theoretically sets a trade association apart (but it does not). That is why each group wants their own SoP and each group believes theirs is superior.
The fact is NACHI, ASHI or NAHI SoP do not mean squat in regulated states like Texas, North Carolina or Oklahoma. In a regulated state with an adopted SoP the trade group SoP is dust in the wind; tissue for the toilet.
Do not dismay, any good expert could sue under any trade association SoP. All SoP have holes a lawyer can drive a truck through, including NACHI.
The fact is the home inspection industry is a microcosm relative to other businesses. It simply does not deserve the time to unify the SoP.
Just make it easy to get a license; promote or require insurance and voila you got consumer protection via the courts. The disposable inspector theory.
An SoP never will and never has assured quality.
ASTM voted down? Baloney. If there is money in it ASTM will run the trade association rear end over like a Mac truck in a bug storm.
And don’t forget NAR. They are more powerful than all the groups put together. As long as you keep assuming property condition liability and keep the agent off the litigation hook they will let you run free. Assuming liability is why home inspection exists. Step on the TAR toe however and the Mac truck will look like a Tonka toy. TAR will squash everyone flat.
This meeting was not victory for the trade associations. It was a victory for ASTM to dump a non-profitable project. They are laughing their rear end off at us.

[David Nice]

Originally Posted by jcahill

This meeting was not victory for the trade associations. It was a victory for ASTM to dump a non-profitable project. They are laughing their rear end off at us.

I don't know where the rest of that rant came from but it is true that ASTM probably could care less about creating a national SOP for the industry.

NAHI spearheaded this and their were shut down by the rest of the HI associations. Make no mistake about it, it IS a victory for the whole industry and a solid defeat for yet another NAHI position.

Now if they would just stop pushing their own "singular" agendas and stand for what the rest of the industry stands for, there might be hope for them.

[gporter]

Originally Posted by dnice

I don't know where the rest of that rant came from but it is true that ASTM probably could care less about creating a national SOP for the industry.

NAHI spearheaded this and their were shut down by the rest of the HI associations. Make no mistake about it, it IS a victory for the whole industry and a solid defeat for yet another NAHI position.

Now if they would just stop pushing their own "singular" agendas and stand for what the rest of the industry stands for, there might be hope for them.

Ditto

[Bruce A. King]

Many of us on here predicted this would happen.

I am impressed, it only took the ASTM engineers a few months to realize how hard it would be to formulate criteria for reporting things like "how much rot is present" and "how long will the roof last".

I am laughing at them for even attempting to improve on the existing SOP's from an engineering angle.

The ONLY way to improve on a SOP is to get technical, then the cost of an inspection goes up and liability goes back to the sellers and agents.

If the industry wants improvements, spot checks on inspectors is the way to go. Face the facts, not many guy's are really good at this job due to overscheduling (greed), lack of defect recognition talent and lack of writing skills. My estimate is 10-15 percent are above average. Might just be the same percentage as any other job though in this country.

[John Cahill]

Originally Posted by dnice

NAHI spearheaded this and their were shut down by the rest of the HI associations. Make no mistake about it, it IS a victory for the whole industry and a solid defeat for yet another NAHI position.

You missed the point. It is neither a victory or defeat. Any belief that that is delusion. It is nothing more than NAHI, NACHI and ASHI bickering and playing king of the mountain. Who cares if NAHI and ATSM create an SoP? Do NACHI and ASHI feel so threatened that they have to shut it down? Believe me, ASHI and NACHI did not shut it down. ASTM did. No money in it for them. If there was money in it they would tell you to take a hike and write it.

An SoP means nothing. Not NAHI, NACHI or ASHI. They are simply trade association words that do nothing to assure inspection quality. Most people never read them. The point of the "rant" is that the strength of you association does not lie in it standards or its perceived ability to bash another group. Your strength lies elsewhere. Find it.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by bking

My estimate is 10-15 percent are above average.

Thanks Bruce.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jcahill

An SoP means nothing. Not NAHI, NACHI or ASHI. They are simply trade association words that do nothing to assure inspection quality. Most people never read them. The point of the "rant" is that the strength of you association does not lie in it standards or its perceived ability to bash another group. Your strength lies elsewhere. Find it.

Have you found it?

[Nick Gromicko]

NACHI, ASHI, IAC2, AII, and CREIA along with several state associations won!

The "we're relevant too, and do big important things" association lost.

You should all be pleased to know that we won't be under the thumbs of REALTORs or builders who can afford to buy tens of thousands of seats on ASTM's inspection committee (yes, they sell the seats for cash).

You should also be pleased that you are once again free to use the SOP of your chosen association at absolutley no cost and without having to pay a copyright royalty to ASTM every time you do an inspection.

ASHI's President elect and I calculated that the whole thing cost our 2 associations over $100,000.00 in expenses and lost inspections to fight this battle.... and it was a battle worth fighting.

Having left for Philly yesterday and only arriving back in Colorado just now... I'm off to bed. 'Nite all.

[Nick Gromicko]

Hey John Cahill, I spent some time with Larry Foster today, he's the greatest and he says hi. I also sat next to Devon Bijansky of TREC (who grew up in Boulder) during the meeting.

[John Cahill]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Hey John Cahill, I spent some time with Larry Foster today, he's the greatest and he says hi. I also sat next to Devon Bijansky of TREC (who grew up in Boulder) during the meeting.

Great. Larry is the greatest. His work will help drive your SoP one day. Has he joined NACHI yet? You should comp him a year.

Devon came into HI knowing nothing and after years of hard work probably knows more than many new inspectors. I thought she was from that island state however.

[John Cahill]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Have you found it?

Well if its not obvious to you . . . IMO, NACHI strength is in it low membership price; its forum that is open to non members; it internet site that is chock full of good stuff; its on line training programs; its national seminar; its free local meetings. Its SoP are good for a non regulated state but is not effective in your home State. The point of my post is the SoP mean nothing; not even in a regulated states. For example, are you writing up non-combustible hearth extensions as in need of repair? If not your in violation of law for 7 years now. My post is not a criticism of NACHI.

The whole ASTM thing was just a trade association tiff and Nick is right when he says it was about the money for ASTM.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jcahill

Well if its not obvious to you . . . IMO, NACHI strength is in it low membership price; its forum that is open to non members; it internet site that is chock full of good stuff; its on line training programs; its national seminar; its free local meetings. Its SoP are good for a non regulated state but is not effective in your home State. The point of my post is the SoP mean nothing; not even in a regulated states. For example, are you writing up non-combustible hearth extensions as in need of repair? If not your in violation of law for 7 years now. My post is not a criticism of NACHI.

The whole ASTM thing was just a trade association tiff and Nick is right when he says it was about the money for ASTM.

In the sense that SoP are worthless to a lawyer that wants to tear apart your
report in order to prove his point, then yes you are correct. But in that regard,
almost anything is useless to a lawyers attempt to twist it.

But the SoP set a minimum standard, and I would rather see inspectors
educated to some kind of standard than none at all. I exceed the SoP
in order to provide more information and thus this provides a better
defense in court... by never having to go there in the first place...

I think the meeting help to confirm that there would no profit for
ASTM to create a nationwide standard, because there would be such
a fight along the way and then overcoming state laws would make
the whole endevour a swamp of endless expense and debate.
I don't think ASTM could simply write a check and make all opposition,
and state laws go away and clear an open field for them. They may
want people to think they are God, but they are not.

Thanks for your post. I find them very informative.