Builder messed up, and blames me!

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I never said you did.

Slippery, as always.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes, Jim.

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Your consulting does not have to be a part of a real estate transaction to be considered a 'Home Inspection. According to Illinois licensing Act.

Jeff

[Frank Magdefrau]

Originally Posted by wdecker

The mold inspection was a different inspection. The one where the builder didn't pay was a completly different inspection.

Read the entire thread.

After all all you did was walk and talk. So I guess there is no possiable way you could have gave incorrect information.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

Your consulting does not have to be a part of a real estate transaction to be considered a 'Home Inspection. According to Illinois licensing Act.

Jeff

?

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

Your consulting does not have to be a part of a real estate transaction to be considered a 'Home Inspection. According to Illinois licensing Act.

Jeff

No ownership transfer involved (i.e., in effect RE contract of sale), therefore it is not an Illinois state law defined "home inspection".

Per my lawyer, who is the most informed lawyer, with regards to HI law in the state.

Argue with him or read the law and state SOP.

Hope this helps;

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Originally Posted by wdecker

No ownership transfer involved (i.e., in effect RE contract of sale), therefore it is not an Illinois state law defined "home inspection".

Per my lawyer, who is the most informed lawyer, with regards to HI law in the state.

Argue with him or read the law and state SOP.

Hope this helps;

On the IDPR site copy & pasted...

State Law Requires Illinois Home Inspector License

The Illinois Home Inspector License Act was adopted to protect the public from unknowledgeable or incompetent inspectors. The law requires that all licensed inspectors meet minimum competency by completing core education and successfully passing an examination. Below are significant points regarding the licensing provisions, including when a license is required and penalties for failing to comply with the Home Inspector License Act.

• A Home Inspector is a person who directly or indirectly performs home inspections for another and for compensation.

• A Home Inspection is an examination of the exterior and interior components of residential real property. This includes the examination of at least 2 of the following:
  
  • Heating, ventilation, and air conditioning system;
  • Plumbing system;
  • Electrical system;
  • Structural composition;
  • Foundation;
  • Roof;
  • Masonry structure; or
  • Any other residential real property component as established by rule.

• It is illegal for a person, including an entity, to act, engage, develop, practice or advertise as a home inspector without a proper home inspector license issued under the Illinois Home Inspector License Act. A person who violates this is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

• It is illegal for a person to use the term "home inspector" or any title that would create the impression that the person is licensed as a home inspector without a proper license. A person who violates this is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

• The requirements for a home inspector license include:
  • Application to the Division of Professional Regulation (DPR) on provided forms accompanied by the required fee;
  • Minimum age of 21;
  • Evidence of a high school diploma or equivalent course of study as determined by the Illinois State Board of Education (i.e. GED);
  • Pass a DPR authorized exam;
  • Proof of prerequisite classroom hours of instruction in home inspection from a DPR approved provider before taking the exam.
• A license is required for every home inspection entity, e.g. corporation, legal partnership. If the entity is a corporation, Articles of Incorporation shall be submitted along with the application and required fee.

• Any person who violates the Licensing Provisions of the Act is subject to criminal prosecution, assessment of a civil penalty not to exceed $10,000, a temporary restraining order and permanent injunction.

The complete Act, Rules and "Frequently Asked Questions" may be found on the following web page: http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/re/HomeInspect.asp. License Applications, Examination Candidate Handbook, list of education providers and License Look Up may also be accessed at the website listed above.
Licensed real estate brokers, salespersons or other licensees engaging in the practice of referring clients or customers to particular home inspectors have an obligation to ensure that the inspectors with whom they have a business relationship are licensed. Aiding and abetting the unlicensed practice of home inspection may subject one's license to discipline

[William J. Decker]

See a prevous post, from the Illinois SOP, that defines what a home inspection is.

Has to be part of a RE transation.

Hope this helps;

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Originally Posted by wdecker

See a prevous post, from the Illinois SOP, that defines what a home inspection is.

Has to be part of a RE transation. Hope this helps;

Illinois SOP as stated from the IDPR... if there is another source that gives a different definition, please let me know.

Jeff

TITLE 68: PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS
CHAPTER VIII: OFFICE OF BANKS AND REAL ESTATE
PART 1410 HOME INSPECTOR LICENSE ACT
SECTION 1410.200 STANDARDS OF PRACTICE

Section 1410.200 Standards of Practice

a) For the purposes of this Section, the terms listed below shall mean:

1) Alarm Systems: Warning devices, installed or free-standing, including but not limited to: carbon monoxide detectors, flue gas and other spillage detectors, security equipment, ejector pumps and smoke alarms.

2) Client: A person or person who engages or seeks to engage the services of a home inspector for an inspection assignment.

3) Component: A part of a system.

4) Decorative: Ornamental; not required for the operation of the essential systems and components of a home.

5) Describe: To report a system or component by its type or other observed, significant characteristics to distinguish it from other systems or components.

6) Home Inspection: As defined in Section 1-10 of the Act.

7) Home Inspection Report: A written evaluation prepared and issued by a home inspector upon completion of a home inspection, that meets the standards of practice as established by OBRE.

Inspect: To visually examine readily accessible systems and components of a building in accordance with these Standards of Practice, using normal operating controls and opening readily accessible access panels.

9) Roof Drainage Systems: Components used to carry water off a roof and away from a building.

10) Significantly Deficient: Unsafe or not functioning.

11) Solid Fuel Burning Appliances: A hearth and fire chamber or similar prepared place in which a fire may be built and which is built in conjunction with a chimney; or a listed assembly of a fire chamber, its chimney and related factory-made parts designed for unit assembly without requiring field construction.

12) Structural Component: A component that supports non-variable forces or weights (dead loads) and variable forces or weights (live loads).

13) System: A combination of interacting or interdependent

components, assembled to carry out one or more functions.
14) Under Floor Crawl Space: The area within the confines of the foundation and between the ground and the underside of the floor.

15) Unsafe: A condition in a system or component that is a significant risk of personal injury or property damage during normal, day-to-day use. The risk may be due to damage, deterioration, improper installation or a change in accepted residential construction standards.

b) These Standards of Practice define the practice of home inspection in the State of Illinois and shall:

1) Provide home inspection guidelines; and

2) Define certain terms relating to these home inspections.

c) The purpose of these standards of practice is to establish a minimum and uniform standard for licensed home inspectors to provide the client with information regarding the condition of the systems and components of the home as inspected at the time of the home inspection.

d) Home inspectors or home inspector entities shall enter into a written agreement with the client or duly authorized representative prior to the home inspection that includes at a minimum:

1) The purpose of the inspection;

2) The date of the inspection;

3) The name, address and license number of the home inspector or home inspector entity;

4) The fee for services performed;

5) A statement that the inspection will be performed in accordance with these Standards;

6) A list of the systems and components to be inspected;

7) Limitations or exclusions of systems or components being inspected; and

The signature of the client or his or her duly authorized representative, and the signature of the home inspector or the duly authorized representative of a home inspector entity.

e) At the conclusion of the home inspection, a home inspector shall submit a written report to the client or duly authorized representative within 48 hours that includes the home inspector's signature and license number and expiration date and shall:

1) Describe the systems and components that were inspected;

2) Report on those systems and components inspected that, in the opinion of the inspector, are significantly deficient; and

A) A reason why the system or component is significantly deficient.

B) Disclose any systems or components designated for inspection, that were present at the time of the home inspection, but were not inspected and a reason they were not inspected.

f) These Standards are not intended to limit home inspectors from:

1) Including other inspection services, systems or components in addition to those defined in these standards of practice; and

2) Excluding systems and components in the written agreement from the inspection.

g) When, pursuant to written agreement with a client, the structural system/ foundation is inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) Inspect the structural components including the foundation and framing; and

2) Describe the foundation and report the methods used to inspect the under-floor crawl space, floor, wall, ceiling, roof, structure and report the methods used to inspect the attic.

h) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the exterior is inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) Inspect the exterior wall covering, flashing, trim, all exterior doors, attached decks, balconies, stoops, steps, porches, and their associated railings, the eaves, soffits, and fascias where accessible from the ground level, the vegetation, grading, surface drainage, and retaining walls on the property when any of these are likely to adversely affect the building, walkways, patios, and driveways leading to dwelling entrances; and

2) Describe the exterior wall covering.

i) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the roof system is inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) Inspect the roof covering, the roof drainage systems, the flashings, the skylights, chimneys, and roof penetrations; and

2) Describe the roof covering and report the methods used to inspect the roof.

j) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the plumbing system is observed, the home inspector shall describe in detail the interior water supply and distribution including all fixtures and faucets, drains , waste and vent systems including all fixtures, the water heating equipment, the vent systems, flues, and chimneys, the fuel storage and fuel distribution systems, the drainage sumps, sump pumps, and related piping, and the location of main water and main fuel shut-off valves.

k) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the electrical system is inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) Inspect the service drop, the service entrance conductors, cables, and raceways, the service equipment and main disconnects, the service grounding, the interior components of service panels and sub panels, the conductors, the over-current protection devices, installed lighting fixtures, switches, and receptacles, the ground fault circuit interrupters;

2) Describe the amperage and voltage rating of the service, the location of main disconnects and sub panels, the wiring methods; and

3) Report on the presence of solid conductor aluminum branch circuit wiring and on the absence of smoke detectors.

l) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the heating system is inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) Inspect the installed heating equipment, the vent systems, flues, and chimneys; and

2) Describe the energy source, the heating method by its distinguishing characteristics.

m) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the cooling system is inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) inspect the installed central and through-wall cooling equipment; and

2) describe the energy source, the cooling method by its distinguishing characteristics.

n) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the interior is inspected, the home inspector shall inspect the walls, ceilings, and floors, the steps, stairways, and railings, the countertops, installed cabinets, doors and windows, garage doors and garage door operators.

o) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the insulation and ventilation are inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) inspect the insulation and vapor retarders in unfinished spaces, the ventilation of attics and foundation areas, the mechanical ventilation systems; and

2) describe the insulation and vapor retarders in unfinished spaces, the absence of insulation in unfinished spaces at conditioned surfaces.

p) When, pursuant to the written agreement with a client, the fireplaces and solid fuel burning appliances are inspected, the home inspector shall:

1) Inspect the system components, the vent systems, flues, and chimneys; and

2) Describe the fireplaces, solid fuel burning appliances, and the chimneys.

(Source: Amended at 27 Ill. Reg. 14180, effective August 15, 2003)

[Peter C. Russell]

I don't see where Will has done anything unethical. No contract, no report = no inspection. As for re-inspecting the building, it's no different than inspecting the same house for two different clients.

The only problem I see is, if this where to go to court and Will testified for the association the builders lawyer will try to discredit him as an impartial 3 party and his report may be rendered meaningless.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

Your consulting does not have to be a part of a real estate transaction to be considered a 'Home Inspection. According to Illinois licensing Act.

Jeff

You are correct.

[William J. Decker]

Your point # 6, Jeff:

"6) Home Inspection: As defined in Section 1-10 of the Act." refers to this:

" "Home inspection" means the examination and evaluation of the exterior and interior components of residential real property, which includes the inspection of any 2 or more of the following components of residential real property in connection with or to facilitate the sale, lease, or other conveyance of, or the proposed sale, lease or other conveyance of, residential real property..."

Which states that it is a home inspection, under the defenition of this law, if it is in connection with a real estate deal i.e., a RE contract in effect. The inspection was not part of a real estate transaction, but was a consultation, and not a home inspection.

If what you say is true, then any time an Architect or General Contractor evaluates a building's problems, of if a mason looks at a badly installed roof at the parapet, they would also be in violation.

Hope this clears it up.

If anyone still doesn't like it, report me. I believe that any state authority or member of the NACHI Ethics board would have a better time understanding because that would not be so wedded to their prejudgments.

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by jbushart

You are correct.

Looks to me from what Will just posted he's correct. If the inspection is not tied to a sale then a judge cannot deam it to be a home inspection. My question is we know by law what constitutes a home inspection however is there nothing written by the state of IL that states what a consultation consist of?

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Looks to me from what Will just posted he's correct. If the inspection is not tied to a sale then a judge cannot deam it to be a home inspection. My question is we know by law what constitutes a home inspection however is there nothing written by the state of IL that states what a consultation consist of?

Agreed. A consultation is merely a private transaction beween two parties. No governmental jurisdiction.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Looks to me from what Will just posted he's correct. If the inspection is not tied to a sale then a judge cannot deam it to be a home inspection. My question is we know by law what constitutes a home inspection however is there nothing written by the state of IL that states what a consultation consist of?

"Tied to a sale", eh? What did the builder/contractor plan to do with his condos that he had hired Will to inspect? If an Illinois homeowner thinking about selling his house hires someone to do a pre-sale home inspection but has not put it on the market.....does he have to use a licensed home inspector in your opinion?

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Agreed. A consultation is merely a private transaction beween two parties. No governmental jurisdiction.

No governmental jurisdiction you can do what you want. However, IMO if you had to go to court a Judge is going to ask both parties what was agreed upon your duties and his and was the agreement put in writting. If not a judge will simply have to make a decision based upon he says she says and you might loose your battle. Doubtful, however IMO I would rather have a scope of work signed by both parties before I ever did a consultation. Once I get my Infra Red cam and more education under me I'll be doing much of what your doing and I'll always have an agreement signed just in case. I think you do a fine Job Will and your a great teacher (I for one have learned a ton from you and others such as Bushhart, Pope, Duffy, Adair and many others). What suprises me is your lawyers are not advising you to have a written agreement of some kind when you do these consultations. As for payment IMO you are due money for your time. I would try to collect. If he refuses tell him his info was sent to the credit bureau then deduct the loss on your taxes. Most people get excited when you mess with their credit and payment is sent if they deem their credit to be valuable.