The Cap and Trade...

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

By increasing your knowledge and studying the source of the building codes you often refer to and cite....your question will be answered.

What does Jae's post have to do with CO?

As you may recall I questioned this in post #3

[James H. Bushart]

Read IBC 2006 or IRC 2006, either one (they are the same), Section 110.

Then, read your statement: One requiring you if you are a home seller to have the home inspected by a government agent and brought up to codes that the "liberals want….prior to being able to sell your home."

Unbelievable!

You'll see the humor.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Read IBC 2006 or IRC 2006, either one (they are the same), Section 110.

Then, read your statement: One requiring you if you are a home seller to have the home inspected by a government agent and brought up to codes that the "liberals want….prior to being able to sell your home."

Unbelievable!

You'll see the humor.

The stated "requirement" may not be true which is why I asked Jae chapter and verse from the actual bill. With out that I have no opinion.

The larger issue is what business of the fed is it to enforce building codes period.

Please show me where that is in the constitution.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

The stated "requirement" may not be true which is why I asked Jae chapter and verse from the actual bill. With out that I have no opinion.

The larger issue is what business of the fed is it to enforce building codes period.

Please show me where that is in the constitution.

I live in a county whose citizens have no building codes. Contractors are literally crawling over each other, thriving at the expense of the poor citizen who is unaware that standards even exist.

Collar ties and trusses are removed to make room for heating and air conditioning units.

Restaurants are built with no ventilation and 100% recycled air....drawn from the restrooms and circulated throughout the dining areas.

Public buildings are wrapped on the outside with indoor romex...held together by the dangling receptacles.....to light up the business signs inviting hundreds to enter their buildings that have no lighted exit signs, no panic bars on the exit doors that do not swing in the direction of egress, and that were wired by their brother-in-law without an inspection.

The builders and the real estate salesmen....arguing the need to keep building costs down so that homes can remain affordable....have convinced these poor bumpkins that building codes are for the rich and were developed by foreign countries (referring to the "International" in the IRC) who want to take over their rights to live like Americans.

What right would a federal government have to step in and provide codes where they otherwise do not exist? The same right that a federal agent has to stop a crime that he sees in progress....the right that a doctor in a VA hospital has to save a life.....the right and the duty to protect the public where the states have failed to do so.

And it is all in the same IRC 2006 that you want to use to force a citizen to rewire his 2-wire house.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

And it is all in the same IRC 2006 that you want to use to force a citizen to rewire his 2-wire house.

I made no such statement. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

Building codes are fine but if no government adopted them you can bet the insurer's would.

And that IMHO is the way it should be.

[James H. Bushart]

The homes and public buildings being constructed in Missouri, particularly the 80% of the geographical area that have no building codes, are insured. Apparently, they ( the insurance companies) are not keeping current with your posts or your opinions.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

The homes and public buildings being constructed in Missouri, particularly the 80% of the geographical area that have no building codes, are insured. Apparently, they ( the insurance companies) are not keeping current with your posts or your opinions.

That is their choice.

If they get enough to pay claims they likely don't care.

If not they will go bankrupt. And that is fine too.

Your apparent trust in government is distressing.

It really doesn't have a good track record.

[James H. Bushart]

This so-called "government official" is called, in the IRC, the AHJ. Ever heard of him? The requirement to have a home inspected by him before it changes hands is being enforced by almost every municipality in St. Louis County and many other jurisdictions where the IRC or IBC have been adopted. Again, read Section 110.

[Michael Larson]

Earth to James.

Read my post #3

[James H. Bushart]

I realize that it has not been published or endorsed by Rupert Murdock or anyone else associated with the Fox News Channel....but it will not hurt you to read and become more familiar with the International Residential Code. I promise.

[Michael Larson]

Comm 20.10 Inspections. (1) INSPECTOR CERTIFICA-
TION. All inspections, for the purpose of administering and enforc-
ing this code, shall be performed by an inspector certified in accor-
dance with ch. Comm 5 who holds the respective credential for the
inspection performed.
(2) GENERAL INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS. (a) General.
Inspections shall be conducted by the municipality or authorized
UDC inspection agency administering and enforcing this code to
determine if the construction or installations conform to the condi-
tionally approved plans, the Wisconsin uniform building permit
application and the provisions of this code.
(b) Inspection notice. 1. The applicant or an authorized repre-
sentative shall request inspections from the municipality or autho-
rized UDC inspection agency administering and enforcing this
code.
2. Except as provided under subd. 3., construction may not
proceed beyond the point of inspection until the inspection has
been completed.
3. Construction may proceed if the inspection has not taken
place by the end of the second business day following the day of
notification or as otherwise agreed between the applicant and the
municipality or authorized UDC inspection agency.
(3) INSPECTION TYPES. (a) General. The inspections
described in pars. (b) to (i) shall be performed to determine if the
work complies with this code.
(b) Erosion control inspection. Erosion control inspections
shall be performed concurrently with all other required construc-
tion inspections. Additional inspections for erosion control may
be performed by the delegated authority.
(c) Foundation excavation inspection. 1. The excavation for
the foundation shall be inspected after the placement of any forms
or required reinforcement and prior to the placement of the perma-
nent foundation material.
2. If a drain tile system is required, by the local inspector or
by groundwater levels in the excavation, the presence and location
of bleeders used to connect the interior and exterior drain tile shall
be inspected at the same time as the excavation.
Note: This excavation inspection may be used to determine the need for drain tile
under s. Comm 21.17.
(d) Foundation reinforcement inspection. The placement of
reinforcement shall be inspected where the reinforcement is
required for code compliance.
(e) Foundation inspection. The foundation shall be inspected
after completion. Where dampproofing, exterior insulation or
drain tile are required for code compliance, the foundation shall
be inspected prior to backfilling.
(f) Rough inspection. 1. A rough inspection shall be per-
formed for each inspection category listed under subd. 1. a. to e.
after the rough work is constructed but before it is concealed.
a. The basement floor area.
Note: The inspection of the basement floor area should include the following: any
underfloor plumbing, electrical, or HVAC; any interior drain tile with base course
required under s. Comm 21.17; the structural base course for the floor slab if required
under s. Comm 21.20; and the underfloor vapor retarder as required under s. Comm
22.38.
b. General construction, including framing.
c. Rough electrical.
d. Rough plumbing.
e. Rough heating, ventilating and air conditioning.
2. All categories of work for rough inspections may be com-
pleted before the notice for inspection is given, provided the work
has not been covered.
3. The applicant may request one rough inspection or individ-
ual rough inspections.
4. A separate fee may be charged for each individual inspec-
tion.
(g) Insulation inspection. An inspection shall be made of the
insulation and vapor retarders after they are installed but before
they are concealed.
(h) Final inspection. 1. Except as provided under subd. 2., the
dwelling may not be occupied until a final inspection has been
made that finds no critical violations of this code that could rea-
sonably be expected to affect the health or safety of a person using
the dwelling.
2. Occupancy may proceed in accordance with local ordi-
nances if the inspection has not been completed by the end of the
fifth business day following the day of notification or as otherwise
agreed between the applicant and the department or municipality.
(i) Installation inspection. An inspection shall be performed
on the installation of a manufactured home or modular home.
Note: The design and construction of manufactured homes is regulated by the fed-
eral Department of Housing and Urban Development under Title 24 CFR Part 3280.
(4) NOTICE OF COMPLIANCE OR NONCOMPLIANCE. (a) General.
1. Notice of compliance or noncompliance with this code shall be
written on the building permit or another readily visible means
and posted at the job site.
2. Upon finding of noncompliance, the municipality or autho-
rized UDC inspection agency enforcing this code shall also notify
the applicant of record and the owner, in writing, of the violations
to be corrected.
3. Except as specified under par. (b), the municipality or
authorized UDC inspection agency shall order all cited violations
corrected within 30 days after written notification, unless an
extension of time is granted under s. Comm 20.21.
(b) Erosion and sediment control requirements. 1. The time
period allowed for compliance with the erosion and sediment con-
trol provisions under s. Comm 21.125 shall be determined based
on the severity of the noncompliance in relation to soil loss or
potential damage to the waters of the state.
2. Pursuant to s. 101.653 (7) (b), Stats., the department, a
municipality or the designated UDC inspection agency may issue
a special order directing an immediate cessation of construction
work on other aspects of the dwelling until compliance with the
erosion and sediment control provisions under s. Comm 21.125 is
attained. Construction work may resume once the erosion and
sediment control compliance corrections are completed.10
Comm 20.10 WISCONSIN ADMINISTRATIVE CODE
Unofficial Text (See Printed Volume). Current through date and Register shown on Title Page.
Register, May, 2009, No. 641
Note: Section 101.653 (7) (b) reads: “The department or a city, village, town or
county may issue a special order directing the immediate cessation of work on a one−
or 2−family dwelling until the necessary plan approval is obtained or until the site
complies with the rules promulgated under sub. (2).”
(5) VOLUNTARY INSPECTION. The department or its authorized
representative may, at the request of the owner or the lawful occu-
pant, enter and inspect dwellings, subject to the provisions of this
code, to ascertain compliance with this code.
(6) RECORD KEEPING. (a) Municipal enforcement. Municipal-
ities that have adopted an ordinance to enforce this code shall
maintain records in accordance with all of the following:
1. A record shall be made of each visit to a site, each inspec-
tion type performed and the pass or fail results of each inspection.
2. Approved plans shall be retained for 4 years after comple-
tion of the dwelling.
3. Applications forms, correction orders, correspondence and
inspection records shall be maintained for 7 years after comple-
tion of the dwelling.
(b) State enforcement. Inspectors working under state contract
shall maintain records in accordance with the provisions of the
contract that was in effect at the time the inspections were com-
pleted.
Note: Records generated by the plan review and inspection functions are public
records and are subject to the open−records law.
History: Cr. Register, November, 1979, No. 287, eff. 6−1−80; am. (1) (a), Regis-
ter, February, 1985, No. 350, eff. 3−1−85; cr. (1) (b) 2. f., Register, January, 1989, No.
397, eff. 2−1−89; correction (1) (b) 2. intro. made under s. 13.93 (2m) (b) 4., Stats.,
Register, January, 1989, No. 397; r. (1) (b) 2. e., renum. (1) (b) 2. f. and 3. and (3) to
be (1) (b) 2. e. and 4. and (2), cr. (1) (b) 3., Register, March, 1992, No. 435, eff.
4−1−92; am. (1) (c), Register, September, 1992, No. 441, eff. 12−1−92; cr. (1) (b) 5.,
Register, November, 1995, No. 479, eff. 12−1−95; am. (intro.), Register, October,
1996, No. 490, eff. 11−1−96; r. and recr. (1) (c), Register, February, 1997, No. 494,
eff. 3−1−97; am. (intro.), Register, March, 1998, No. 507, eff. 4−1−98; r. and recr. (1)
(b) 4., Register, March, 2001, No. 543, eff. 4−1−01; CR 00−159: am. (1) (intro.), (c)
1. and 2. a., r. and recr. (1) (a), Register September 2001 No. 549 eff. 12−1−01; CR
05−113: r. and recr. (1) (c) 2. Register December 2006 No. 612, eff. 4−1−07; CR
06−071: am. (1) (b) (intro.) cr. (1) (b) 6. and (3) Register December 2006 No. 612,
eff. 4−1−07; CR 08−043: r. and recr. Register March 2009 No. 639, eff. 4−1−09;
correction in (3) (i) made under s. 13.92 (4) (b) 7., Stats., Register March 2009 No

[James H. Bushart]

I can see your point, but in areas where there are no protective measures for the citizens these standards are an acceptable start, IMO.

In my frustration, I presented the Missouri County where I live in an unfavorable light and made some unkind references and generalizations that were wrong. I apologize for that. I ask that nothing said by me in frustration and anger be regarded as anything more than that.

You are all invited down for barbecue, fishing and fun on the Fourth. BYOB...and food....and place to sleep.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Looks like Mike nailed this one.

Bureaucrats Will Carry Out Mandatory Home Inspections Under Climate Bill


Hopefully we will all have cushy six-figure incomes come 2010. If this thing really happens I would expect ICC Certification might become in vogue, it is a government recognized measure of overall home constriction knowledge.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

I imagine, just like cities now sub out code enforcement work, the feds will do the same. They will have to. The inspectors that want a steady paycheck will become subs. Like most government work, these inspections will not be very through and the inspector will be in and out in a hurry with the protection of the government when he misses something. I guess, a government inspection is better than no inspection at all.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I can see your point, but in areas where there are no protective measures for the citizens these standards are an acceptable start, IMO.

In my frustration, I presented the Missouri County where I live in an unfavorable light and made some unkind references and generalizations that were wrong. I apologize for that. I ask that nothing said by me in frustration and anger be regarded as anything more than that.

You are all invited down for barbecue, fishing and fun on the Fourth. BYOB...and food....and place to sleep.

I'll get over over Jim.

We all say and type things that we probably wouldn't face to face.

I've been meaning to call you but I have been busy. Later maybe.