CMI 1000 Point System

[John McKenna]

After talking with Nick and some others, after the North Texas
Chapter meeting... it appears there is a general feeling that
the CMI requirements need to be adjusted.

The term "Master" needs to reflect experience, education and
ethics. Without one of these legs, the chair does not hold its own.

I think the 1000 point system that Nick mentioned last week
is a good idea, and so do others that I have heard from.

1000 points (education hours + number of inspections)...
with a min. of 100 in each.

If the inspectors are willing to meet a higher level then why
would anyone want to water down the CMI certification
with the idea that "no experience is required". It just does not
make sense to me.

I like the idea of CMI and I can see that someday many inspectors
will seek to attain it... if it looks like something real and reflects true
excellence, achievment and professional standards.

John McKenna
American Home Inspection

[Brian E. Kelly]

John aren't you already a CMI?

[Nick Gromicko]

I really like the 1,000 idea (I confess, in part because I like round numbers ). I really want to see it become a reality.


Here is the problem:

My friends and NACHI veteran inspectors Joe Burkeson and Greg Bell have done a lot of work on CMI with respect to providing constructive criticism of the program. For that I am grateful. But the problem with the criticism is that it revealed a flaw that I don't see how to repair... that being that although we consider experience to be a qualification (I think we all do), we (the MICB) has no way to verify it. We asked Joe B. to come up with a method and he has yet to succeed. In fact, no one has successfully solved this technical problem (how does the board verify it).

Joe did come up with ways for us to verify the number of inspections an applicant performed, but that doesn't solve the problem.

He has yet to proffer a way for us to verify that any of them were done correctly. The day he (or someone) does... we'll adopt the 1,000 idea.

Remember, verifying that a report complies with SOP in this day and age (when every reporting form and software generates SOP compliant reports)... means nothing. Any association that awards Full member status to its Candidates for having incorrectly and poorly peformed a certain number of inspections with SOP compliant reports, these days, is a silly-**** association. The MICB wants to remain serious.

Performing 1,000 inspections poorly is not a qualification and so not meaningful.
Performing 1,000 inspections correctly is a qualification, but not verifiable.

How do we add an experience requirement to CMI that is both meaningful and verifiable? This is the riddle. A riddle no one has solved so far.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

How do we add an experience requirement to CMI that is both meaningful and verifiable? This is the riddle.

Add in years of Affiliated Membership along with the number of Inspections / Continuing Education completed.

Education is Important.

Years in Business and Number of Inspections completed is equally important.

Number of Years with regard to continued NACHI Membership is measurable in terms of Business Longevity...

[Nick Gromicko]

One solution to the riddle would be for every CMI to be required (within the first year) to ride-a-long with another CMI and co-inspect a couple properties. It would be very helpful to both inspectors and would fulfill the requirement for both at the same time. The inspections could be for real fee-paying clients of one or the other, or mock inspections on their own homes. Anyone who has actually done live ride-a-longs with fellow inspectors knows that it is very educational for both inspectors.

This would be a verifiable and meaningful requirement.

[Nick Gromicko]

Just as iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Nick the ride along idea in theory is ok at best.

We already have CMI's advertising they were first in their area with the Cert and other CMI's recommending that the requirements be made more stringent when the ink has barely dried on their Cert's. Now you are proposing that these same people decide if the next guy in their geographic area is worthy?

WTF is made out of iron anymore?

[Nick Gromicko]

Brian, It has nothing to do with "people deciding if another guy in their geographic area is worthy."

I've done ride-a-longs many times. I've also done mock inspections with as many as a dozen inspectors at once. Everyone who has done these can vouch that they are one of the most meaningful forms of inspection education that exists... maybe the best.

Every veteran inspector I know who has ever done a group mock or even a ride-a-long with a fellow inspector has confessed to learning much.

I still have all the comments from the mocks John Bowman held, comments from very experienced inspectors who surprised themselves with how much they learned from other inspectors. A very "worthy" opportunity.

I challenge you to reveal to us anything, anything at all, that is better. You can't. No classroom, online course, or home study course can compete.

Having completed a few of these would be a very meaningful and easily verifiable qualification to add to the requirements.

[rmoore]

But Nick, meanwhile, you have seen fit to hand out lifetime CMI status to anyone with $175 and who isn't a sex offender. Oh...and 150 hours of unverified (probably) education with no passing requirements.

Now, I'm sure that a few that have applied may be deserving of the title "master", but I'm equally sure that many are not. For example, one of the three so far in my state appears to have been in business for about a year and doesn't show up on the state's Structural Pest Inspector list. That means, by law here, that he can't mention any moisture or insect related problems. Great..."I may be a certified master inspector but I'm sorry, can't report your totally rotted deck or plumbing leaks".

As I see it, you have made CMI totally meaningless and, in some cases, downright deceptive to the public. I bolded the "lifetime" above because it appears that once you "qualify", you could then continue being the worst inspector going and never turn another page in a text or code book. I see no mechanism to rescind the title.

With apologies to those who may actually be worthy, and to those whose intentions were good, but CMI , as now applied, smells like a marketing scheme designed to eventually line the pockets of CMI training vendors. The worst part is that it will forever be tainted by the lack of any appropriate requirements for the initial lifetime members. 1000 ponts, even if applied down the road, isn't going to wash away that dirt.

I think you (and/or the others involved) have taken what might have been a good idea and made it suck!

That may just be my opinion, but I'll make it heard if I see a bunch of rookies touting their Master designation close to me.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Nick:

Interesting suggestion.

I have Personally (Directly) supervised over 500 Inspections completed by several NACHI Member Inspectors. These were all Fee Based Inspections.

Is there a Current CMI Member that has done the same with regard to direct On-Site Supervision of an Inspection for Members at Large?

[Nick Gromicko]

Ah, Richard... you live in a state that allows every sex offender to be a home inspector, and operate under no Code of Ethics, so long as they complete a grand total of zero hours of continuing education...

so I wouldn't throw too many stones at a professional designation that requires abiding by the highest inspector COE ever written, a criminal background check, and 150 hours more education than your state requires.

Also, I wouldn't throw too many stones at a set of requirements that is being increased by adding a verifiable and meaningful experience requirement to it without offering your solution for us to read.

It makes you look like you really don't have a solution when you complain, while suspiciously neglecting to include your solution in your post. We understand the problem. If you really have the solution... let's hear it. I'm all ears.

[Nick Gromicko]

Joe, I don't know if they've done any ride-a-longs. I imagine so. The applications are so amazing. Some with 8,000 and 10,000 inspections under their belts. All of them with more than 150 hours of CE.

Anyway, if you look back at Richard's post or any post that is critical of CMI you will notice something in common with them all. None, not one, has offered a way to add an experience requirement to CMI that is both meaningful and verifiable.

Many have come up with ways for the board to verify the number of inspections performed but none have figured out a way for the board to verify that any of them were done right.

Richard's post proves it is easy to scream about non-veterans being able to get in and achieve the designation solely through education, but much harder for Richard and others to tell us how to keep veterans (who have done many inspections poorly)... out.

Doing it wrong, over and over, is not experience that qualifies.

[Nick Gromicko]

The board can't give credit for having poorly performed a certain number of inspections.

Solve the riddle, preferrably before you complain that others haven't.

[rmoore]

Ah, Richard... you live in a state that allows every sex offender to be a home inspector, and operate under no Code of Ethics, so long as they complete a grand total of zero hours of continuing education...
so I wouldn't throw too many stones at a professional designation that requires abiding by the highest inspector COE ever written, a criminal background check, and 150 hours more education than your state requires.

Ah Nick...not quite right. Many of our sex offenders are locked up. Besides which, I suspect you could become one the day after receiving the coveted "master" seal. How often are the background checks going to be done?

As for the "highest COE ever written"...I see no discenable difference between this one and most others, unless you are referring to...

2b. The Certified Master Inspector® shall assist in disseminating and publicizing the benefits of hiring Certified Master Inspectors®.
2c. The Certified Master Inspector® will not engage in any act or practice that could be deemed damaging, seditious or destructive to fellow Certified Master Inspectors®.
2d. The Certified Master Inspector® will dress professionally when acting in the capacity of his/her profession.

...which all seems a little self serving...but nicely dressed.

Also, I wouldn't throw too many stones at a set of requirements that is being increased by adding a verifiable and meaningful experience requirement to it without offering your solution for us to read.

Fine...but you already have "lifetime" members with minimal experience. You offering refunds?

It makes you look like you really don't have a solution when you complain while suspiciously neglecting to include your solution in your post.

You are correct sir! I have no solution to your mess. I wasn't aware that it was my problem!

[Nick Gromicko]

Richard, you are incorrect about the COE. The CMI COE is much, much different and better than others. NAHI's for instance permits inspectors to work to correct defects they discover on an inspection! Read: http://www.nachi.org/the_lady_doth_p...h_methinks.htm A CMI may never work to correct defects he/she finds on the inspection. That is just one "discernable difference."

You are incorrect about lifetime CMI's. Certainly a violation of the COE or a new felony would rescind one's CMI designation. The "lifetime" doesn't guarantee your CMI status forever... read it again slower. It was referring to the annual dues. There are no annual dues. The fee is a one-time lifetime fee. And as for the third qualification, it is a point of logic that one cannot earn negative hours of continuing education. Once you have completed 150 hours of education in your lifetime you can never... even if you live to be 98 years old... ever get to a point where you've earned less than 150 hours in your lifetime. Just like once you've turned 30... you will never be younger than 30 in your lifetime, regardless of how long you live. You will be older than 30 for life.

As for CMI, it is currently and primarily an education earned professional designation. It is not messy at all. It is very clean. What is messy is when someone makes a post criticizing the education-based designation as not also having an experience requirement without telling us specifically what that requirement should be and how we should verify it. I agree with the 1,000 idea. It was my idea. The problem is that we all have tried to come up with a method to verify the number of correctly performed inspections an applicant has done, but have found no way to do it. If you've solved the riddle you yourself pose... let's hear the answer. I'm all ears.