Certified Master Inspector already being used in Yellow Page ads.

[Nick Gromicko]

Good post Richard.

Furthermore these guys violate http://www.nachi.org/code_of_ethics.htm #3.3.

[wforsyth]

Excellent post Richard, and thank you for being someone with the guts to stick up for the new guys. I really appreciate it.

Thank you Nick as well for pointing that out. If I were the vengeful type, which I'm not, I could get together a list of names for expulsion of members that have made my life a living hell since joining.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Good post Richard.

Furthermore these guys violate http://www.nachi.org/code_of_ethics.htm #3.3.

It is obvious to most members that 3.3 is a piece of garbage that should be removed from the CoE; its sole purpose is to allow the ESOP committee to operate their own special NACHI sanctioned inquisition against any member for any reason they so choose. 3.3 is an embarrassment to the profession, worthy of an apology.

[rbunzel]

I am in total agreement with Ron. There is a huge gap between book knowledge and experience. Since there is no experience requirement this title is meaningless and just drags the whole concept of a certified inspector further into the gutter.

Nick, would you want a surgeon with no experience but a lot of classroom study time operating on you? Would you want a airline pilot, with no experience, as the captain of the plane on your next trip? How about the operator of a nuclear reactor? I could go on but you get the point. There is no substitute for experience.

I like many members of the HI professional I considered my learning to start with my first real inspection and frankly I had a lot of learning to do. I probably have close to 1,000 inspection and don't consider myself a master inspector. If I was a consumer and I hired a master inspector, I would have much higher expectations and so would a judge. This seems to be the consensus of the NACHI membership.

//Rick

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by rbunzel

I like many members of the HI professional I considered my learning to start with my first real inspection and frankly I had a lot of learning to do. I probably have close to 1,000 inspection and don't consider myself a master inspector. If I was a consumer and I hired a master inspector, I would have much higher expectations and so would a judge. This seems to be the consensus of the NACHI membership.

I resonate well with your post and to continue the thought, most likely were you to one day consider yourself a Master Inspector, you would in all probability be carrying two or three times the minimum required CEU's, and no doubt be one of the most expensive inspectors in your market.

In almost all cases in other professions Master titles cannot be purchased for $175, they are issued through invitation by their peers and acknowledged by a majority of the rank & file within the profession. I have had the pleasure to be associated with many whom I would call a Master Home Inspector, unfortunately only two appear on the CMI website and both of them are now currently more involved with education then perfecting their craft any further.

It is my belief the Master Home Inspector title should be reserved for the select few who after perfecting and honing their skill to where it becomes widely recognized by the greater profession perseveres on and continues to devote the majority of their time to the actual art & science of home inspection, anything short of that reduces its value for everyone.

[Nick Gromicko]

Joe Burkeson: Doin' it wrong doesn't count as experience. How many supervised inspections have you done? CMI is continuing education based (150 hours) in part because continuing education is a REAL qualification that can be verified... number of inspections performed incorrectly is not a qualification... and... number of inspections performed correctly is a qualfication that cannot be verified.

Think about it from our perspective.

[Blaine Wiley]

Nick,

Are you saying that all inspectors who aren't CMI's are perofming unqualified inspections?

It sounds like you are saying that all inspectors who aren't performing supervised inspections are doing them incorrectly.

[rbunzel]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Joe Burkeson: Doin' it wrong doesn't count as experience. How many supervised inspections have you done? CMI is continuing education based (150 hours) in part because continuing education is a REAL qualification that can be verified... number of inspections performed incorrectly is not a qualification... and... number of inspections performed correctly is a qualfication that cannot be verified.

So let me get this correct, because you can verify a requirement means that it is a good, credible measurement of qualifications? That laughable. I have yet to attend a CE class that has a final exam. Some give a test at the end and its open book so the measurement of retained knowledge is minimal. The only support I see for this title is from the schools who financially benefit from it, the newbies who have $175 and you. Nick whats in it for you? Do you think this title is actually going to improve the industry???

//Rick

[Nick Gromicko]

Blaine, no, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that we can only count things at CMI that are BOTH qualifications and verifiable.... in other words... verifiable qualifications.

--150 hour of Continuing Education is both a qualification and verifiable.

--Having performed a number of inspections incorrectly is not a qualification.

--Having performed a number of unsupervised inspections correctly is not verifiable.

150 hours of Continuing Education is both... and so is a verifiable qualification because it is both a qualification and verifiable.

This is the primary reason CMI is continuing education based.

[Nick Gromicko]

If I had a method of magically verifying the number of correctly performed inspections an inspector has done... I would use it as a requirement for CMI... but I don't have that magical power.

[Nick Gromicko]

Rick, every single state and federal government agency that uses continuing education as a requirement to achieve and/or maintain a government issued license disagrees with your last post, as do I.

[rbunzel]

Nick,

Wrong - I can easily give you several examples:

-Washington State give a written and practical exam to become a WDO inspector. To maintain it you need CE's

- State of Colorado requires a written and practical exam to recieve the FF 1 certification

- State of Colorado requires a written and practical exam to recieve a HazMat Responder certification

- Federal Goverment requires a practical and written exam to become a Wildland Firefighter - Nick these are the guys who are going to protect your house this summer

-Federal Goverment requires a practical and written exam to become a pilot and practical exams as you achieve various levels of license

In Colorado For a master Electrician license you need to document five years of electrical experience; four years of that time must be electrical construction wiring, for lights, heat, and power.The exam takes several hours to complete.

In Colorado For a master plumbers you need to document five years of plumbing work experience; four years for a journeyman license; and two years for a residential license. The exam includes written and practical sections

These are the one I can recall off the top of my head... I am sure others can give more examples.

Your statement was pretty vague, can you give examples of a state or federal agency that awards a master designation with requirement as thin as CMI's?

//Rick

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Joe Burkeson: Doin' it wrong doesn't count as experience. How many supervised inspections have you done? CMI is continuing education based (150 hours) in part because continuing education is a REAL qualification that can be verified... number of inspections performed incorrectly is not a qualification... and... number of inspections performed correctly is a qualfication that cannot be verified.

Think about it from our perspective.

Nick,

Think about it from this perspective...

This guy a self-confessed newbie just a few short months ago is now listed on the CMI website. Now I ain't just picking on Brian, I would imagine at least 20% of the so-called CMI's probably fall into this category and it has no relation to anything remotely related to being a Master of anything.

Brian C. McDonald, CMI
McDonald Home Inspection Services, LLC
Jaffrey, NH
(603) 532-2433
bmcdonald@nh.nachi.org
www.inspectorpages.com/bmcdo

As long as you see fit not to police the CMI group and allow anyone who plunks down $175 entry, you will receive this type of response to your certification mill.

Nick,

It is all up to you, the public and the profession will never be fooled into believing well intentioned folks like Brian are Master Home Inspectors no matter how you dress it up, you just don't go from being a newbie to being a Master there is stuff in between that is known as experience, sorry.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Joe

Would it be better to call it a QEA instead of a CMI?

QEA being a Qualifying Education Award. I still say that good education can produce a good or better inspector than a crap school and many poorly done inspections. We could debate this until the cows come home. I do think that somewhere field testing or lab work will be the name of the game. Sort of can you drive the car?? (19 year old took 2nd at the Indy 500 and almost took first)

Many trade schools have hands on training so to say that a school educated is not good is just a not founded on fact.

Yes I do AGREE that someone that has been in the industry for many years is probably better than the new kid on the block. The numbers do not lie. The life expectancy of an HI is short. The good ones stay in business.

Maybe the good ones were good on day one and that is why they are still here.

If the word master is wrong ok --

Will some computer person put together an HI inspection game that we can use as an HI simulator. If we can teach flying in a simulator why not HI?


We have rain in Frostproof

rlb

[William J. Decker]

Here's my 2 cents, for anyone who cares.

I have met, talked with and gotten to know many inspectors. Most come from the Trades and some come from college.

Just because a guy is a Master electrician (no offense meant, Paul ) does not mean that he knows anything about HVAC or plumbing.

Just because a guy went to college for some unrelated subject (like Phyiscs) does not mean that he cannot learn inspection.

I have always believed that there are three necessary skills to do this job. I have recently amended that to 4. They are:

• Technical knowledge. Knowing Electrical, HVAC, Plumbing, Roof, Structure, Exterior, etc and the state's laws regarding construction and home inspection.
• Applied Psychology. We are dealing with clients who are on an emotional roller-coaster. We must know how to deal with them, to talk to them were they are, to help them understand the house and its issues. We must also learn to deal with Realtors (who come in all kinds) and sometimes, the client's RE lawyer, as well as (sometimes) the seller, the buyer's parents, contractors, developers, etc.
• Report writing skills. For those of you who do narrative reports, if you do a good job, tyou are writing the equivilent of a college level term paper for each report. I just finished a report that ran to 41 pages. My smallest report was 26 pages. Sure, some of that is pictures and boilerplate, but you have to make the report complete, relevant to the property and readable. This last is the most important. In order to serve your client, you must make the report readable and undsestandable to them. You are also serving your client is you also make the report readble to all the other people who will be seeing the report; their Realtor, their Lawyer, the seller's realtor and/or Lawyer, and specialists that you have recommended to be called in. You must make your report understandable and informative to all these people if you want to write a good report.
• The fourth skill, recently added, is being a good businessman. This involves knowing accounting, tax policy and law, business administration, purchasing, marketing and public relations.

The only objective and verifiable measurement of these skills is by tracking education.

Comments? Disagreements? Death threats?