Certified Master Inspectors (CMIs) in a dozen states & provinces, many NACHI members.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

There is no such thing as a "higher" standard. Either an inspector complies with (and his report complies with) the existing Standard of Practice that he advertises or abides to by law... or he doesn't. An inspector cannot mislead a consumer by touting the number of continuing education he/she has completed (as long as it is true). An inspector can only mislead a consumer by implying (by saying he/she is Code Certifed or a Professional Engineer, or whatever) that he/she is offering services outside the Standard (SOP).

Nick,

To most of us it appears that you have created a lead balloon that you can't get off of the ground; now instead of re-engineering the project because it won't fly, you curse the law of gravity and question our sincerity because we won't volunteer as test pilots, please give us all a break already. BTW Happy Birthday.

[Nick Gromicko]

Joe B... C'mon... you know me from NACHI well enough to know that all my baloons sail. It is risky to laugh . Remember when Brian Hannigan told me when when we launched this message board. He said the same thing you did, that it "wouldn't get off the ground" and that it ""wouldn't ever smell its 100th post." That was 246,000 posts ago. Despite everything going against it... it is sailing... sailing high too. You only know me from NACHI (not my other interests) so I'll use NACHI examples to point out the risk of laughing too loud at any new project I'm involved with...



--I recall some posts from year's back laughing about NACHI one day having a message board would be the industry's most popular, 246,000+ posts later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having more educational events than all other orgs combined, http://www.nachi.org/events.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having more members than any other organization, http://www.nachi.org/nachi_north_america.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having more membership benefits than any other org (even that no-benefit org you belong to), http://www.nachi.org/benefits.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having a website bigger than all other orgs combined, 175,000+ pages later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day getting more traffic than all other orgs combined, http://www.nachi.org/stats.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having the industry's most popular lead generators, http://www.FindanInspector.us, http://www.InspectorSEEK.com and http://www.InspectorLocator.com later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having vendor relations that get members the best deals, http://www.InspectorMALL.com later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having its own E&O insurance discount online portal, http://www.nachi.org/eo.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day giving free websites to every member, http://www.inspectorpages.com later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.

--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day giving free websites to every chapter, http://www.nachi.org/chapterlist.com later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.


--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day doing more than all other orgs combined, http://www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.

Joe, the CMI baloon is already off the ground and sailing. Ride it if you want.

If you think it is a marketing tool only... I don't... but if you do... so be it... you have to admit it is a killer.

If you are a good inspector and offer good services to your fellow citizens then you have an ethical duty to let as many of your fellow citizens benefit from your good works. You also have an ethical duty to charge your client enough to stay in business so that many others can benefit from your good works. CMI helps you do that by providing something for you to point to to explain why it is in the best interest of your client to pay you more than other inspectors. Joe, if you think CMI is just a tool... I don't... but if you do... fine. It is a baloon that is already (after only 2 weeks) lifting our prices... and that is one baloon that I am very proud to have launched...even though I might have needed some hot air to do it.

[Joe Farsetta]

There is no lead baloon here. CMI will fly, because it is legitimate.

As to any notion of advanced inspection techniques, I remind everyone that the inspector is bound by a standard of practice. indeed, your E&O carrier wants to ensure that you follow someone's SOP and that it is reasonable. So, too, with the CMI.

And, while some will argue that having an ICC certification, as an example, is the only way to go, I would caution those folks that they are probably at a higher risk advertising their IC cert, than someone using the CMI designation.

For, you see, an inspection is a visual assessment of the readily accessible and visible cmponents and systems which make up a house. It is an opinon as to the overall cndition. It is not a code compliance inspection, because we are not the AHJ, nor are we code inspectors (well, at least most of us).

However, one who is qualified to act in the capacity of a code official for a municipality may find himself/herself in a bind if they fail to report any code-related defficiency. Remember, the buildng codes are a minimum safety standard, and anyone with such a certification has "special knowledge".

Anyone who is familiar with real estate law recognized two specific legal terms: special knowledge, and vicarious liability. The two go hand in hand.

Indeed, the ICC certified home inspector cannot turn a blind eye. Especially if they were hired because, not only were they a home inspector, but they are "code certified" , as well.

So, while we bandy about all the issues relative to CMI, why not examine ALL the issues facing inspectors.

And, of course, for those who either choose not to believe in CMI, or want nothng to do with it, it is a voluntary designation. Some will want it, while thers will not.

We've already established this long ago. It's apparently not for Joe B nor Greg in its current form. That's col. But its current form is what you are left to deal with.

No one is twisting your arms.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Nick,

No dispute from me and I wasn't laughing either. I am sure that to implement the list you just posted required much hard work and adjustment along the way, you had help along the way and finally people believed in what you were doing. Unfortunately that is not the case with CMI, it was DOA last year and now it is just stinking up the profession.

I stand on my statement... CMI in its current state will only attract those who are deficient in skill & experience. Education is only a start and not a destination, when all is said & done you still have to build the bridge to cross the river and that takes proving yourself through work preformed over time spent, you just cant shortcut the process and you know it.

Newbies are newbies, well because they are new, and masters are masters because they have honed their skill over time and persevered long enough to become respected as one by their peers, no certificate required.

[bkelly1]

Seems the only ones who are happy about this are those who are teaching, own a school, or a course to provide. As well as those on the committee. I just can't understand why everyone is pushing this so hard when there appears to be no money made from the designation for nachi, and the ones pushing it. Why divide the membership with no profit involved, I just don't understand the thinking.. ............. Stinking, Thinking it appears.

[Nick Gromicko]

Consumers benefit by inspectors that are well educated and market well.

--- An uneducated inspector that markets strong is bad for consumers as he/she doesn't know anything.

--- A well educated inspector that can't market is bad for consumers because consumers can't find the inspector.

BOTH TYPES OF INSPECTORS STINK and are unethical.

Consumers benefit by inspectors who are both well educated and market well. CMI creates an incentive to get educated and creates a tool to market.

That is CMI in a nutshell. Freakin' gorgeous!

[bkelly1]

Sounds like a 10 at 2:00am, and a 2 at 10:00am....but, what do I know, upward and onward!

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

And, while some will argue that having an ICC certification, as an example, is the only way to go, I would caution those folks that they are probably at a higher risk advertising their IC cert, than someone using the CMI designation.

Let me be the first to welcome you back from your long hiatus and state categorically that you are once again talking out of your hat. You know just enough about ICC Certification to get yourself into trouble and have lost almost all creditability with the membership.

The ICC Referenced Standards & Code of Ethics is similar in many ways to any other organizations codes, if NACHI's standards are good enough to provide protection form lawsuits to the inspectors working within their guidelines, so should the standards from the ICC. I believe you are just attempting to scare inspectors away from acquiring a legitimate certification and substituting a phony CMI designation that will never be respected by our profession. I an sure if you were an ICC educator you would be singing a much different tune.

[ekartal5]

CMI designation better than ICC?

You've got to be kidding. Now I've heard it all.

[jmichalski]

Originally Posted by gbell

Joesph

You are one of the ones that started this. Why are you here asking questions? Didn't all of you agree before initiating this program?

Greg,

If you mean me, I did not start CMI - I argued against it from inception. I was told by Nick that he had backed off and was turning the designation over to an indpendant entity to develop it as a legitimate designation, and that I could participate in that process.

I was not a participant. I was totally blindsided when Nick announced the CMI qualifications had been established and I am back to hating the idea as it is poorly designed and meaningless.

I did not agree to anything but to help and offer my opinion in shaping CMI - I was not offered any role to do so.

[jclark1]

I certainly don't consider myself anywhere close to master status since the word conveys years of experience. So the whole thing is a joke when someone like myself or the guy mentioned earlier in the post (who readily admitted being a newby) can qualify as a MASTER.
By the way Nick, your pledge didn't even last a day?

--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having more members than any other organization (even that diploma mill you belong to that counts come only with cash candidates who join in 30 seconds), http://www.nachi.org/nachi_north_america.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by jclark1

--I recall some laughing about NACHI one day having more members than any other organization (even that diploma mill you belong to that counts come only with cash candidates who join in 30 seconds), http://www.nachi.org/nachi_north_america.htm later and I don't hear much laughing anymore.

I don't believe any NAMES or GROUPS were actually mentioned in that statement....lol......no harm no foul...lol

[Nick Gromicko]

It can't be denied, NACHI is larger than any other inspection industry trade association. We are larger than all of them in every quantifiable category. This is not bashing... it is just a fact accepted by everyone. For years another trade association used to advertise that they were the largest... they've stopped and switched to oldest. That association isn't bashing other associations when it rightfully claims to be the oldest, and by the same token, we aren't bashing anyone when we rightfully claim to be the largest.

You make a good point about use of the word "Candidate" which is somewhat associated with two other trade associations in particular. From here on out I will refrain from use of the term altogether so as not to infer anything I don't mean to infer. I'll call new applicants of other associations... new applicants from now on.

Thanks.

[Greg Bell]

I see that you have added a few more unqualified people as master inspectors. Keep up the good work. All of you involved with this are a great credit to this industry.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gbell

I see that you have added a few more unqualified people as master inspectors. Keep up the good work. All of you involved with this are a great credit to this industry.

Greg,

How long do you think it will be before the CMI Florida Page compares to this single NACHI InspectorSeek Zip Code here in Florida rendering the whole thing useless for the inspector? Based on the current list of five here in Florida I'll be that combined they haven't performed 250 home inspections!

I say less then a year for the buying public to figure out CMI is only a marketing gimmick and has no bearing on the quality of inspection or the competence of the inspector. The one guy currently listed in my market is at least $25 below the average cost and $50 less then what I would charge for a similar inspection.

I ask you, shouldn't a Certified Master Inspector be charging more for an inspection then one from one of us common everyday peon inspectors?