Did anyone see the..

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by escanlan

If you have read the Koran as you claim then you should be well aware that the Koran does not advocate the killing of innocent people under any circumstance.

Emanual,

Your interpretion of this may be a little bit off. The Koran does teach that everyone should be converted to Isalam. Failing that, those who refuse should be eliminated. So if you define someone refusing to convert as not being innocent then you are correct. Otherwise it does teach the killing of innocent people.

The Koran also teaches the concept of 'holy jihad'. Which in a sense means a holy war against the unbelievers. The 'holy' part is the concept of conveting them (by force if necessary). Or killing them if that fails. There is also some teaching about those who die in a 'holy jihad' being offered paradise. (That's the part that these religious finatics distort into justifying terrorism.)

[Peter C. Russell]

This reminds me of the last election, I remember Al Gore in a boat in Portsmouth harbor doing a press release, The back drop was the Portsmouth Navy Yard and he was complaining about the lack of security in the harbor, stating the Coast Guard had limited resources and how he would fix all that if elected, I even think there was a nuclear sub being worked on in the background.

I was appalled that he would divulge such information on public television and he was a senator at the time, what a disgrace, Thank God he is out of politics and has become a concert promoter instead!

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

We have many fisherman who fish the Niagara River and many others.
How the hell do you think you can stop going back and forth .
I have many US friends who come out of the US and fish in Canadian waters .
Every DAY some 27,000 Americans have their identities stolen.
So easy when they have your name to go across the border.
We can not control idiots.

[wforsyth]

Originally Posted by prussell

This reminds me of the last election, I remember Al Gore in a boat in Portsmouth harbor doing a press release, The back drop was the Portsmouth Navy Yard and he was complaining about the lack of security in the harbor, stating the Coast Guard had limited resources and how he would fix all that if elected, I even think there was a nuclear sub being worked on in the background.

I was appalled that he would divulge such information on public television and he was a senator at the time, what a disgrace, Thank God he is out of politics and has become a concert promoter instead!

Yep, complete moron. Not even all Americans knew that kind of stuff. But he blasts it for everyone who sits there daily watching American news for all those little tidbits to find. Might as well just put the noose around our necks now.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Originally Posted by klott

What is all this talk about fences and isolation, i don't want either neither does the President, that's what this war is all about, remaining a free society without having to live in fear of fanatics with bombs who want to impose their beliefs on us and free peoples the world over. Who said anything about isolating Canada Roy, Canada is in this fight also, just the other day some of your troops were killed in Afghanistan fighting for the same reason we are. The point I have been trying to make is: what good is it to have maximum security at a main border crossing only to have none at a remote location. If you were a terrorist where would you try to sneak in a weapon of mass destruction? A well secured border checkpoint or one with no security at all? How much money would it cost if New York city was rendered a desolate wasteland because of radiation? Could we replace Dallas or L.A. with a trillion dollars? Yes we have lost over 3500 troops in this war, a terrible loss of life, but how many would die at a superbowl game if someone set off a backpack nuke? I will tell you what I tell everybody, do like I did and go to Barnes and Noble, buy a koran and read it, then you might just see that we cannot afford to not fight this war. read the book and notice how & where mohammed got started as being a so called prophet from god, look what happened after he did, look at how he used emotions to stir people up, notice the way he took parts of judaism and christianity to form a new religion. I get sick of hearing people say that christians started all of this trouble during the crusades. The truth is the muslims sacked Jerusalem, they ran over the jews and christians, they took the center of worship for there own agenda and killed anyone who did not worship the way they dictated.The crusades were a rescue mission to restore the birthplace of worship. The crusades were meant to stop islam in its tracks before it ran over the whole world. The muslims hi-jacked the temple mount that Solomon built as a temple to worship God as instructed by God himself. The muslims added to that by hi-jacking the ascension of Jesus by claiming that mohammed ascended from the very spot in the same way Jesus did. If you really want to see the truth go to the book store and get a Torah, a New Testiment and a Koran. If you really want to know what is happening now in the world go read the old testament, just from a historic point of view(I'm not trying to convert anybody here) and it will blow your mind when you see that everything that was predicted then is being played out before your eyes, I dare you too. This is not an attempt to recruit you to my beliefs, I have said all of this to get you to understand what is happening. Does the fact that osama bin laden is doing exactly what mohammed did make you wonder at all? Read the koran and it will become clear. Do you wonder what Irans leader is really up to? Read the koran and it will become clear. Do you really know what the muslims want? Again read the koran. Finaly one last question for you is which book would you believe is true, the first book (the Torah-old testament) which told 15oo years before what was going to happen in the 1st and 2nd books, the second book (the Bible or new testament) which was a fullfillment of the 1st book and told what would happen as a result of the 3rd book and beyond or the third book ( the koran- written 600 years after the 2nd book) which tooks parts of the 1st and 2nd books, and added what an eleven year old boy in a cave claims God told him to write in dreams? If after you read these books you happen to believe the 3rd one, then I have to ask why aren't you following David Koresh or Louis Farrakhan, they had dreams also.

I should have read the rest of the thread before my last post. If I had then I would not have needed to ask the question!

Kenneth,

What is all this talk about fences and isolation, i don't want either neither does the President,that's what this war is all about, remaining a free society without having to live in fear of fanatics with bombs who want to impose their beliefs on us and free peoples the world over.

You read the Koran, as well as the Torah. Do you also have a direct line into the White House? You seem to know what the Presidents agenda is as well as he does. How does this war tie into the bombing in OKC? You know, the one with Timothy McVay, et al.? As long as this world turns there will always be terrorism and terrorists as well as those with their own agenda such as McVay. How is a war going to stop that? After all, just about the worst one yet was Adolf Hitler. He was stopped but genocide still continues around the world!

The point I have been trying to make is: what good is it to have maximum security at a main border crossing only to have none at a remote location. If you were a terrorist where would you try to sneak in a weapon of mass destruction? A well secured border checkpoint or one with no security at all? How much money would it cost if New York city was rendered a desolate wasteland because of radiation? Could we replace Dallas or L.A. with a trillion dollars?

I thought you did not want fences and isolation? How would you propose securing a border to prevent the nukes from coming in that you are so concerned about?

I will tell you what I tell everybody, do like I did and go to Barnes and Noble, buy a koran and read it, then you might just see that we cannot afford to not fight this war.

We can certainly afford not to fight this war!!

read the book and notice how & where mohammed got started as being a so called prophet from god, look what happened after he did, look at how he used emotions to stir people up, notice the way he took parts of judaism and christianity to form a new religion. I get sick of hearing people say that christians started all of this trouble during the crusades. The truth is the muslims sacked Jerusalem, they ran over the jews and christians, they took the center of worship for there own agenda and killed anyone who did not worship the way they dictated.The crusades were a rescue mission to restore the birthplace of worship. The crusades were meant to stop islam in its tracks before it ran over the whole world. The muslims hi-jacked the temple mount that Solomon built as a temple to worship God as instructed by God himself. The muslims added to that by hi-jacking the ascension of Jesus by claiming that mohammed ascended from the very spot in the same way Jesus did.

You certainly do have an intense hate for Muslims! Hate is what causes the vast majority of problems and wars.

If you really want to see the truth go to the book store and get a Torah, a New Testiment and a Koran. If you really want to know what is happening now in the world go read the old testament, just from a historic point of view(I'm not trying to convert anybody here) and it will blow your mind when you see that everything that was predicted then is being played out before your eyes, I dare you too.

Why don't you enlighten us on your interpretation of "what is happening now in the world"? I would certainly like to hear your interpretation.

This is not an attempt to recruit you to my beliefs, I have said all of this to get you to understand what is happening.

It certainly sounds like you are trying to recruit more people into the army of hate!!

Finaly one last question for you is which book would you believe is true, the first book (the Torah-old testament) which told 15oo years before what was going to happen in the 1st and 2nd books, the second book (the Bible or new testament) which was a fullfillment of the 1st book and told what would happen as a result of the 3rd book and beyond or the third book ( the koran- written 600 years after the 2nd book) which tooks parts of the 1st and 2nd books, and added what an eleven year old boy in a cave claims God told him to write in dreams? If after you read these books you happen to believe the 3rd one, then I have to ask why aren't you following David Koresh or Louis Farrakhan, they had dreams also.

Kenneth do you even really understand what religion in general is all about?

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by prussell

This reminds me of the last election, I remember Al Gore in a boat in Portsmouth harbor doing a press release, The back drop was the Portsmouth Navy Yard and he was complaining about the lack of security in the harbor, stating the Coast Guard had limited resources and how he would fix all that if elected, I even think there was a nuclear sub being worked on in the background.

I was appalled that he would divulge such information on public television and he was a senator at the time, what a disgrace, Thank God he is out of politics and has become a concert promoter instead!

This is just one of many places where serious damage can be done .
Any person who wishes can do serious damage .
I can think of 20 with out straining my self . Will not post any as Idiots do not need more information .
You can be sure trained saboteurs know more and simpler things then we can thing of .

[Peter C. Russell]

Roy, the one piece of mind I have is I know many people that work down there everyday and these people know there turf, so to speak, but their there everyday and will notice something out of the ordinary.

Many here still have relative that had to patrol the coast or ME NH & MA during WW2, in fact there was a German sub that was caught in the river heading into the harbor. The story goes that something happened to the sub and before they got to it everyone drowned, then they stripped everything out of it and towed it out to sea and sank it.

My next door neighbor is a veteran or WW2 and her job was patrolling the NE seacoast.

[klott]

Originally Posted by escanlan

I should have read the rest of the thread before my last post. If I had then I would not have needed to ask the question!

Kenneth,



You read the Koran, as well as the Torah. Do you also have a direct line into the White House? You seem to know what the Presidents agenda is as well as he does. How does this war tie into the bombing in OKC? You know, the one with Timothy McVay, et al.? As long as this world turns there will always be terrorism and terrorists as well as those with their own agenda such as McVay. How is a war going to stop that? After all, just about the worst one yet was Adolf Hitler. He was stopped but genocide still continues around the world!



I thought you did not want fences and isolation? How would you propose securing a border to prevent the nukes from coming in that you are so concerned about?



We can certainly afford not to fight this war!!



You certainly do have an intense hate for Muslims! Hate is what causes the vast majority of problems and wars.



Why don't you enlighten us on your interpretation of "what is happening now in the world"? I would certainly like to hear your interpretation.



It certainly sounds like you are trying to recruit more people into the army of hate!!



Kenneth do you even really understand what religion in general is all about?

i do not hate muslims as you say but i do hate islam, i do not hate the sinners but i do hate the sin, timothy mcvay is dead, dealt with, the muslim terrorist are still out there planning to do us harm and as far as my interpretation of what is happening in the world right now, i do not have or need an interpretation, i see, hear and pay for it every day, if you would open your eyes you might see it also, and as jar as the president goes, you accuse me of knowing what is in his mind and what his agenda is. GUILTY as charged, but My knowledge is not a guess or by reading tea leaves, i take him at his word, i judge by his actions, I share his vision, and i fully support him plain and simple. On the other hand it is you who pretend to know what is in his heart, it is you who accuse him of having a hidden agenda, it is you who is the isolationist, and it is you who sound like you are filled with hatred, hatred towards the president, the country and freedom in general, it is you who values the dollar more than human life, it is you who says don't worry about all the innocents killed by saddam it is not our problem, it is you who accuses our government of neglecting the elderly, it is not the governments responsibility to take care of the elderly, it is the families duty, it is the churches duty, it is the neighbors responsibility. Do you relly want to place your well being in the hands of somebody in D.C. would could care less if you draw another breath. How much do you donate to your local nursing homes to insure the residents are well taken care of? How much time to you devote? I will have to cut this off for now, my hand is hurting to bad to continue. Later

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by wforsyth

No, because I assume those areas are manned.

The end, I would think, would be manned.

Let's see. 700 mile fence. 1951 mile border. That leaved 1200+ miles. Quite an "end" to keep manned. And that is just the Mexico border.

As for the Canadian border, not counting the the 1500 mile border with Alaska, that only leaves 4000 more miles to cover. And they would use a crossing?

The rivers are not manned. The lakes, except for the Great Lakes that actually have US Coast Guard, are not manned. and the miles and miles of forest is manned very little and mostly by Game Wardens.

As for the "outing" of our weak spots, time spent on the internet and doing a small amount of research would give the same information to the terrorists. The again, they probably do their own information searches while they are here going to school. The public should be made aware of our weak spots. Only with this information can the public make a big enough fuss to perhaps force our government to spend our money here at home protecting these spots instead of overseas fighting a war that the majority of the public does not want to continue.

[Peter C. Russell]

In northern NH we have miles and miles of snowmobile trails that go back and forth across the border. Many people will leave camp in the AM, ride into Canada for lunch and return.

No border guards in the middle of the woods.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

Emanual,

Your interpretion of this may be a little bit off. The Koran does teach that everyone should be converted to Isalam. Failing that, those who refuse should be eliminated. So if you define someone refusing to convert as not being innocent then you are correct. Otherwise it does teach the killing of innocent people.

The Koran also teaches the concept of 'holy jihad'. Which in a sense means a holy war against the unbelievers. The 'holy' part is the concept of conveting them (by force if necessary). Or killing them if that fails. There is also some teaching about those who die in a 'holy jihad' being offered paradise. (That's the part that these religious finatics distort into justifying terrorism.)

Mark,

Over the years there have been many different interpretations of the Qur'an. I have only viewed the interpretations by moderates. The versions I have seen do advocate trying to convert others to Islam but not the elimination of non-believers or those who refuse conversion.

Not having read any translations by more radical factions I can not say that what you state is not true. The translations I have seen all have very sound and rational tenets. These translations actually advocate religious tolerance, not initiating violence or hatred and showing mercy and compassion for all people. Yes, the translation I read did advocate "smiting" their enemies. But that was only in war and the Qur'an does not advocate starting a war. It does advocate coming to the defense of the helpless, even Jews and Christians that are being unjustly slaughtered.

The problem today that is giving the Islamic religion, Muslims, et al. the black eye are the fanatics who choose to twist the Qur'an into a meaning that fits into their heinous actions. Of course that is nothing new and also not isolated to radical Islamic groups. After all, the Nazi's were Christians and used the religion as part of their justification to wage a genocide on the Jews.

[mnahrgang]

Originally Posted by escanlan

After all, the Nazi's were Christians and used the religion as part of their justification to wage a genocide on the Jews.

I'm sorry but you are actually contributing to making everyone else's point by your own arguments. ... Nazi's were NOT Christians. Some may have claimed to be, some who were conscripted may have been, but there is absolutely nothing Christian about Nazism. I'm sure many believers such as Cory TenBoom and her family and other Christians who suffered equally with the Jews during that time would agree with me.

As for "translations" of the Koran... Just as when one reads a "translation" of the Christian Bible, one has to understand that there is an underlying meaning to that which was translated. There aren't many Bibles. There is one. There are many translations of that one, which when used properly helps an individual understand the undlying meaning of the one.

Likewise, there is just one Koran. Some translations may "soften" the message. But there is one and only one underlying message that is there that is relative to this discussion. That is, convert or die. That's the message we should fear here in America.

Here is another thread that was just posted that speaks on this subject as well...
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthrea...035#post225035

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Originally Posted by klott

i do not hate muslims as you say but i do hate islam, i do not hate the sinners but i do hate the sin, timothy mcvay is dead, dealt with, the muslim terrorist are still out there planning to do us harm and as far as my interpretation of what is happening in the world right now, i do not have or need an interpretation, i see, hear and pay for it every day, if you would open your eyes you might see it also, and as jar as the president goes, you accuse me of knowing what is in his mind and what his agenda is. GUILTY as charged, but My knowledge is not a guess or by reading tea leaves, i take him at his word, i judge by his actions, I share his vision, and i fully support him plain and simple. On the other hand it is you who pretend to know what is in his heart, it is you who accuse him of having a hidden agenda, it is you who is the isolationist, and it is you who sound like you are filled with hatred, hatred towards the president, the country and freedom in general, it is you who values the dollar more than human life, it is you who says don't worry about all the innocents killed by saddam it is not our problem, it is you who accuses our government of neglecting the elderly, it is not the governments responsibility to take care of the elderly, it is the families duty, it is the churches duty, it is the neighbors responsibility. Do you relly want to place your well being in the hands of somebody in D.C. would could care less if you draw another breath. How much do you donate to your local nursing homes to insure the residents are well taken care of? How much time to you devote? I will have to cut this off for now, my hand is hurting to bad to continue. Later

Kenneth,

i do not hate muslims as you say but i do hate islam,

The followers of the Islamic religion are Muslims! They are one in the same and consider themselves as such. If you hate the religion and not the people would you be willing to have a Muslim live in your home?

By the way, do you even know what the word Islam translates to? It means "to surrender" or "to sumbit". Muslim is a derivation of Moslem which means "one who surrenders to God".

i do not hate the sinners but i do hate the sin,

That's attitude is no different than the radical factions of Islam who have twisted the Qur'an to read that all non Muslims should be killed. That is the exact same thing that our government is fighting against now!

the muslim terrorist are still out there planning to do us harm

So is every psychopath running around our streets! You have a much better chance of being hit by a drunk or killed by a psychopath than you do of being nuked by a terrorist.

and as far as my interpretation of what is happening in the world right now, i do not have or need an interpretation

Pretty much as I thought! You will function on the ramblings of your own emotions.

and as jar as the president goes, you accuse me of knowing what is in his mind and what his agenda is. GUILTY as charged, but My knowledge is not a guess or by reading tea leaves, i take him at his word, i judge by his actions, I share his vision, and i fully support him plain and simple. On the other hand it is you who pretend to know what is in his heart, it is you who accuse him of having a hidden agenda, it is you who is the isolationist, and it is you who sound like you are filled with hatred, hatred towards the president, the country and freedom in general, it is you who values the dollar more than human life, it is you who says don't worry about all the innocents killed by saddam it is not our problem,

You continue to take him at his word. As for his actions they will leave him with a legacy of being the most inept president we have had to date. As for his vision he is no different than many other politicians. His vision changes as needed to fit the circumstances. Even GW Bush Sr. advised him not to go into Iraq and he could not listen to his elders, his own Father who already knew what was going to happen.

Kenneth you're not that old but do have just a few years on me. Bubba I'll tell you what. Fifteen to twenty years ago I would be right beside you and fight you to get ahead of the line to jackslap anyone who said anything bad about our government. But over the years I've taken the time to keep my eyes and ears open and honestly don't like what I have heard, seen and learned.

it is you who accuses our government of neglecting the elderly, it is not the governments responsibility to take care of the elderly, it is the families duty, it is the churches duty, it is the neighbors responsibility.

Kenneth you're only 54 years old so you can certainly afford to say that! However you seem to forget it was the elderly in this country that fought and died for this country during the world wars. It was the elderly who had the good morals, values and working ethic that built this country into what it was not what it is now! It was the elderly that gave birth to your generation and sacrificed so they could make better lives for themselves. It was the hard working elderly of today that must still work way past a decent age to retire because they can't even afford their life sustaining medications and medical bills. It was also the elderly that was told way back when that if you work hard you will be rewarded and your country will take care of you. Well it just isn't happening buddy!!

With that I will leave you with one last thing. It is a passage that you should consider.

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise"

Luke 6:31

Common translation - "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

[mnahrgang]

Emmanuel,

Since you decided to quote the scripture. The one we all know as the golden rule. To do as you say unto others as you would have them do unto you...

My assumption is that you would hold this truth to be universal. That not only Ken Lott should follow this rule but you and I and the rest of the world as well. For you certainly seem to be a reasonable person, and no reasonable person would hold such rules up for some and then not enforce them for others as well.

This then would also be the same rule that the rest of the world would be living under as well. And since the rest of the world also includes many radical Islamic terrorists who have stated the out and out desire to totally destroy the United States, Israel, Judaism, and Christianity. Wouldn't then be logical to assume that they are simply doing unto us that which they would have us do unto them? If that is the case, then it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that we should therefore try to do unto them first? That is what they would expect. Besides if we don't the only ones left will be them...

Emmanuel the scripture talks much about peace, and love, and turning the other cheek. But that's not all that there. There is also much about justice, and mercy, and righteousness, and wrath. There is much about war and about fighting the good fight. Jesus himself told his disciples at one point in time to strap on their swords. Jesus himself trashed the temple in anger when He toppled the tables of the money changers. And Peter (one of the disciples) carried a sword with him when he went out (which is apparent by the evidence that he cut off the ear of one who was arresting Jesus). There are many instances in the bible where Angels fought battles with demons. And the book of Revelation is chock full of accounts of battles and destruction.

Solomon, known throughout scriptures as the wisest man who had ever lived, said himself that there is a time for everything. Including a time for peace and a time for war.

You have a statement that ends all of your posts "Knowledge is power! But sharing Knowledge brings peace!" I think there is some truth in that. But don't confuse the lack of war with peace. Those in bondage aren't at war, but they aren't at peace ether. Sometimes the only thing that leads to peace is the total destruction of those who would enslave us.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Moslem people. I do hate some of the Islamic beliefs. I hate the idea that someone has to think and worship like they do or they should be killed.

We live in a country where the Moslem is very welcome. He can come here and live among us. He can worship as he wishes. And I'll fight anyone who challenges that right. However, one thing he can NOT do, is force his beliefs on the rest us. No more than you or I can (or should) force our beliefs on him. Some Moslem people get that. And I certainly enjoy their company, and I trust they can enjoy mine as well.

However for those who say I must convert or they will kill me and destroy everything I believe in... I'm sorry, I guess I'm just not a good enough Christian to turn the other cheek.

[klott]

Originally Posted by escanlan

Kenneth,



The followers of the Islamic religion are Muslims! Bingo! They are one in the same and consider themselves as such. Aw gee I didn't know that. If you hate the religion and not the people would you be willing to have a Muslim live in your home?You bet, show him just how foolish his beliefs really are thru giving him knowledge and wisdom which comes not from me but from him who gives such gifts to men.

By the way, do you even know what the word Islam translates to? It means "to surrender" or "to sumbit". Muslim is a derivation of Moslem which means "one who surrenders to God". Yes I know what it means and how they use it to try and make us submit to their will.



That's attitude is no different than the radical factions of Islam who have twisted the Qur'an to read that all non Muslims should be killed. That is the exact same thing that our government is fighting against now! I don't remember what the quote was, so I won't answer this one.



So is every psychopath running around our streets! You have a much better chance of being hit by a drunk or killed by a psychopath than you do of being nuked by a terrorist.A drunk or a psychopath will not kill a whole city, this was a poor analogy.



Pretty much as I thought! You will function on the ramblings of your own emotions.This was a cheap shot, I like how you left out the last sentence of my quote!



You continue to take him at his word. Who should I believe hilliary, reid, you?As for his actions they will leave him with a legacy of being the most inept president we have had to date. As for his vision he is no different than many other politicians. He is a poitician! His vision changes as needed to fit the circumstances.Flexible is good! Even GW Bush Sr. advised him not to go into Iraq and he could not listen to his elders, his own Father who already knew what was going to happen. I did not hire him to listen to his elders, but to lead himself, and I am not the least bit dissatisfied.
The only ones who consider him as inept are the naive and left wing liberals like you, so what, who cares what you think, he doesn't and neither do I. As a matter of fact, you can judge his integrity by the fact that he could care less about his popularity, he does what he feels is the right thing for his country. If you are going to try and beat me with bible verses, then I suggest you go read jude and stop speaking evil about the president.By the way I never heard G.W. Bush senior admit to advising his son not to go to war, but even if he did then that is further testament to the presidents integrity in that he shows he is his own man and is not swayed by the opinions of others, even his father. Dad had his chance, the floor belongs to his son now.
Kenneth you're not that old but do have just a few years on me. Bubba I'll tell you what. Who's bubba? Fifteen to twenty years ago I would be right beside you and fight you to get ahead of the line to jackslap anyone who said anything bad about our government. But over the years I've taken the time to keep my eyes and ears open and honestly don't like what I have heard, seen and learned.Don't you get it, we are the government, go stand in front of the mirror and spit in your own face!



Kenneth you're only 54 years old so you can certainly afford to say that! I might sue you for this! It's a lie, I have been celebrating my 21st birthday for 33 years! However you seem to forget it was the elderly in this country that fought and died for this country during the world wars. Nope, my daddy did. It was the elderly who had the good morals, values and working ethic that built this country into what it was not what it is now! Yep, my daddy did. It was the elderly that gave birth to your generation and sacrificed so they could make better lives for themselves. yep, my daddy did that too, or at least my mother blamed it on him! It was the hard working elderly of today that must still work way past a decent age to retire because they can't even afford their life sustaining medications and medical bills. This is the responsibility of family and the church, but people have become so selfish they just try to pass the buck, it is not the governments fault that they did not plan for their future. It was also the elderly that was told way back when that if you work hard you will be rewarded and your country will take care of you. Well it just isn't happening buddy!! It is doing a better job that you admit. Guess what, they still have freedom to play golf, bingo, buy white shorts and move to florida because this government still fights to keep them free. You fail to realize that people are living a lot longer than they should, medicine is keeping them alive, take it from me, I know this personally, I don't care how much money one has, there is some sickness and situations which cannot be improved by government action.

With that I will leave you with one last thing. It is a passage that you should consider.

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise"

Luke 6:31

Common translation - "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Amen, if you expect someone to take care of you when you get older, then I suggest you do the same right now, things have a way of coming back to you. P.S. if you want your kids to enjoy the freedoms you now have, then you better not wait for someone else to fight for it. Stop fighting your country and start fighting your enemies! The end!