Going beyond the SOP

[Patrick Bolliger]

OMG Ben! those will be the last pictures of you walking on the roof..
We will remember Bens feet and maybe the picture on the way down...

I agree with Joe F.. Your inspection should not cost you your life.. Lord knows some of the neighborhoods I visit may.... The roof to ------> concrete poisoning is no way worth $350....

[Joe Farsetta]

Ben,

Take NACHI's safety course. Ladder safety is a part of it.

As to getting training from a fire company, keep in mind that they never ladder a building alone, nor do they carry or raise the ladder without assistance. Ladders are always footed by another firefighter. I know this because I served in a ladder company for 10 years. Ladders in the fire service are an entirely different animal, from inspections, to ratings, to assistance, to operation. We, on the other hand, are typically one-man operations, where we often place the ladder in a flower bed.

The photo you show of the ladder on the flat side is wreckless, in my opinion. I've laddered enough structured in my lifetime to recognize an accident waiting to happen.

The suggestion for NACHI, if you are truly interested in ladder safety, is to employ OSHA for development of this training.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

If you were to generally describe your inspection service, would you say that you go beyond the Standards of Practice?

Indubitably

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Ben,

Take NACHI's safety course. Ladder safety is a part of it.

As to getting training from a fire company, keep in mind that they never ladder a building alone, nor do they carry or raise the ladder without assistance. Ladders are always footed by another firefighter. I know this because I served in a ladder company for 10 years. Ladders in the fire service are an entirely different animal, from inspections, to ratings, to assistance, to operation. We, on the other hand, are typically one-man operations, where we often place the ladder in a flower bed.

The photo you show of the ladder on the flat side is wreckless, in my opinion. I've laddered enough structured in my lifetime to recognize an accident waiting to happen.

The suggestion for NACHI, if you are truly interested in ladder safety, is to employ OSHA for development of this training.

Actually in Ben"s Defense that ladder comes with a claw on the feet.
I never like people touching the ladder I am on.

I would also like to see more inspectors using this type of ladder ,rather than one that is made of aluminum as many use.
Aluminum ladders conduct electricity and a guy in my area thought it was a good idea to climb a utility pole with one the other day.

They carried him off on a stretcher and the power went out in the area.
I am not sure if he lived.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

The most safest ladder is the one never used - yes?

As I go up my ladder to walk upon the roof (as I go beyond the SOP), I put THIS on my ladder.

Do you?

You should.

Don't use your ladder until you get one of these.

[James H. Bushart]

The SOP provides for a variety of means of inspecting the roof. Not any one means is required over the other. It simply requires that it be inspected.

Whether one decides to view from the ground with binoculars, perform his own acrobatic stunts to mount and dismount the roof, or wires a video to a chimp, Ben Gromicko, or some other ape-like creature (just kidding, Ben) it makes no difference. The roof is to be inspected and reported.

You do not "exceed" the SOP by walking the roof or leasing a helicopter. Inspecting the roof and reporting on it is all the SOP demands.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Ben,

Take NACHI's safety course. Ladder safety is a part of it.

As to getting training from a fire company, keep in mind that they never ladder a building alone, nor do they carry or raise the ladder without assistance. Ladders are always footed by another firefighter. I know this because I served in a ladder company for 10 years. Ladders in the fire service are an entirely different animal, from inspections, to ratings, to assistance, to operation. We, on the other hand, are typically one-man operations, where we often place the ladder in a flower bed.

The photo you show of the ladder on the flat side is wreckless, in my opinion. I've laddered enough structured in my lifetime to recognize an accident waiting to happen.

The suggestion for NACHI, if you are truly interested in ladder safety, is to employ OSHA for development of this training.

Excellent points.

From iNACHI safety course...

Ladder Operation and Safety:

• What is a Ladder?
• OSHA's Requirements for Ladders
• Background on Ladder Safety
• Protecting Yourself
• Inspecting a Ladder
• Ladder Sizing and Ratings
• Ladders and Electricity
• Setting Up a Ladder
• Review

[Ben J. Gromicko]

It is an excellent course. We've updated it recently.
http://www.nachi.org/safety_course.htm

[John McKenna]

You can include this in any safety course... on how not to do it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HVVm...57836&index=12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruhs5...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMYxP...aynext_from=PL

and this one is for free...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feWcy...eature=related

[James H. Bushart]

There is a home inspector in Texas who is being sued for going beyond his SOP.

The court has accepted the argument that the SOP is NOT a minimum standard....but an industry standard. The inspector went beyond the SOP, the suit alleges, and the buyer walked.

Thus, the seller is suing the inspector for going beyond the industry standard and interfering with his sale. The Seller has asked the court to make the inspector provide all of his reports, all of his advertising, and records of all of his training going back the last 10 years. The court has agreed.

Joe Farsetta is writing an analysis of this case and it would be prudent for all of you who erroneously believe the SOP to be some kind of "minimum standard" to study it.

Going beyond the SOP...and killing the deal...can kill you and your business.

[Billy Boerner]

Originally Posted by jbushart

There is a home inspector in Texas who is being sued for going beyond his SOP.

The court has accepted the argument that the SOP is NOT a minimum standard....but an industry standard. The inspector went beyond the SOP, the suit alleges, and the buyer walked.

Thus, the seller is suing the inspector for going beyond the industry standard and interfering with his sale. The Seller has asked the court to make the inspector provide all of his reports, all of his advertising, and records of all of his training going back the last 10 years. The court has agreed.

Joe Farsetta is writing an analysis of this case and it would be prudent for all of you who erroneously believe the SOP to be some kind of "minimum standard" to study it.

Going beyond the SOP...and killing the deal...can kill you and your business.

Jim anyway to see what part of the report actually killed the deal or made the seller mad so we can learn from it?

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by bboerner

Jim anyway to see what part of the report actually killed the deal or made the seller mad so we can learn from it?

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f71/houst...92/#post563554

[Brian C. Hoagland]

Originally Posted by jbushart

There is a home inspector in Texas who is being sued for going beyond his SOP.

The court has accepted the argument that the SOP is NOT a minimum standard....but an industry standard. The inspector went beyond the SOP, the suit alleges, and the buyer walked.

Thus, the seller is suing the inspector for going beyond the industry standard and interfering with his sale. The Seller has asked the court to make the inspector provide all of his reports, all of his advertising, and records of all of his training going back the last 10 years. The court has agreed.

Joe Farsetta is writing an analysis of this case and it would be prudent for all of you who erroneously believe the SOP to be some kind of "minimum standard" to study it.

Going beyond the SOP...and killing the deal...can kill you and your business.

Are you sure this was in texas? I thought it was another State?Where the court has supoened past inspections not relegated to the case for reference. If courts are going to go back on prior reports to verify that the same defects are noted over and over again then we are all in trouble.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bhoagland

Are you sure this was in texas? I thought it was another State?Where the court has supoened past inspections not relegated to the case for reference. If courts are going to go back on prior reports to verify that the same defects are noted over and over again then we are all in trouble.

Nope. Texas...and the case is still pending.

The seller is claiming tortuous interference with a sale on the part of the inspector who went outside of his SOP to find something wrong and made the buyer walk.

This poor inspector is going to be spending tens of thousands to win. If he loses....it's going to forever change the way many do business.

Even now, I think the goofy "I exceed my SOP and that is why to hire me" baloney needs to stop.

As we have said countless times....you either inspect by the industry standards or you do not. If you do not, it will be totally up to you to convince the court that your standard is better whenever either party is harmed by the modification.

"Exceeding" the SOP is to not comply with the SOP, but to inspect by a different standard. In the case of the Plaintiff in this suit, the inspector chose to deviate from the industry standard to such a degree that it interfered with his contract and cost him the sale of his house.

The Plaintiff's lawyer and the court get to look at every single one of his prior inspection reports. What do you think they are looking for? What do you think they will say when they find that their report addresses items not even mentioned on other reports? Especially in Texas where the state....not the inspector....defines the SOP and what will be inspected?

[Gary Farnsworth]

Lawsuits are appearing out of nowhere. With the economy the way it is, it is huge business, and the only one that is increasing. Just a few years ago, these things would not have even been brought about. With state licensing, attorney integration, lawmaker pay-offs, our business will never be the same; and, not for the better. Soon, you will need a license, insurance, training, just to mow your grass.

In Michigan, watching your neighbors kids for an hour after school is not legal, unless you have a day care license, insurance requirements, etc. It is getting to the point where no one wants to do anything because of the treat of lawsuits.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/..._backlash_mich

It is a different world we are living in.