It is hard to educate!

[cduphily]

Originally Posted by sstanczyk

You don't need the box. 20 amp receptacles look different from 15 amp receptacles, regardless of whether they are gfci or not.

Thanks Steve, I did not know that.

Will, you can spoon feed the uninformed all the information you want, but they still have to be willing to swallow and digest it.

A valiant effort non the less

[Bob Elliott]

I walked into someones bathroom today and said that is a 15 amp GFCI.
Cool.

(I know what you guys are thinking and the tub was empty)

[dmcauley]

With even more thread drift, I learned last week that a normal, whatever that is, GFCI lasts around 7-8 years and then should be replaced.

[Bob Elliott]

Dennis , I would not use a time frame since it is recommended you test them once a month anyway.

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

I believe that even though they are 15 amp, they are also rated for a 20 amp feed through.

[dmcauley]

Robert,
The age of GFCI was for information only. I never use a time frame for GFCIs when inspecting for a client or around my house. How would I or you know when the GFCI was installed at an inspection? Come on Bob you are much better than that.

[William J. Decker]

Here is tha latest.

The woman called the local code guy, Mr. Johnson. Realize that she is not really too swift and the un-licensed "handyman" seems to be gone. 60 amp main disconnect wadsworth fuse panel with the "range" disconnect used for the added A/C compressor. I recommended "evaluation and repair by a licensed and insured electrical contractor and gave her a name of a guy I know and trust (Bobby). There is a 20 year old guy across the street who she "thinks" is licensed (I would doubt it. He balked when I asked him to see his license or union card (The same thing, around here.)

Below is FYI:

"See below:
Will Decker
Decker Home Services, LLC
www.DeckerHomeServices.com
Office: (847) 676-8393
Cell: (847) 609-2345
Home: (847) 673-2702
-----Original Message-----
From: dsta8@aol.com [mailto:dsta8@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 8:22 PM
To: wjd@deckerhomeservices.com
Subject: fuse box

Hi Mr. Decker,
Eric Johnson from Skokie (code inspector) was here today. This is what he said:
The entire box should be 100 so since we have 60 and 60. even though
the air concitioner in back has 40-40, it needs to be changed. (Didn't
you say that since the fuses in the backyard were 40/40 then it was ok,
if the box was 60/60?
> It is required, by local codes? I don’t believe so. Did Mr. Johnson give you his opinion in writing, on Village letterhead? Does he require it? Would it be good for you to replace the entire fuse box to circuit breakers and for 100 amp service? Yes. Is it required? Not in my opinion and it would grandfather by the codes.
> Your fuse box is an old one, with a main disconnect and a range disconnect. The A/C compressor was added and still has the 60 amp cartridge fuses, but they added a 40 amp (the rated service for the A/C unit) fused disconnect at the A/C compressor. So the 60 amp "range" fuses at the box don’t matter. But, if he "requires" it, in writing and on village letterhead, than I would do it.
He said all our fuses should probably be 15 because of the wires in the
box are meant to support only 15. Now there are two 30's and two 20's
and two 15's.
> Probably? Did he require it? Did he put it in writing?
Two of the fuses (a 30 and a 15) are dummies, no wires attached. He
said a fire could start because the wires cannot support higher fuses
than 15 and probably it is like this because in the past when a smaller
fuse would be used like a 15 probably the fuse keeps blowing. I didn't
try it. Did you find this too when you saw the box?
> I did not do a complete electrical inspection, but I did recommend that you have a licensed and insured electrical contractor evaluate and repair the panel.
He recomends: Able electric, G& S Electric or B electric? He is familar
with Bobby and says he is ok but recommends the others.
> They are licensed and insured, or he would not recommend them, I assume
The guy on my street is a licensed electrician although he is only
20yrs old. He says he can change the box to circuit breakers for $700
and then rewire the whole house (14 wires ( I forgot what he callled
it) X $100 each = total of $2100 plus he would have it inspected and
he would include changing all the outlets back to regular outlets and
not GCFI's.
> If you try to do this on the cheap, you will get exactly what you pay for. I would have it evaluated and repaired by a licensed and insured electrical contractor, just like I told you the first time.
Eric Johnson said I could leave the GCFI's alone since I already have
them, they were not needed but he said they do not harm, I know you
disagree.
> Is Mr. Johnson a licensed and insured electrical contractor? If not, his opinion doesn't mean much, does it. Again, hire a licensed and insured electrical contractor to evaluate and repair the house's electrical system.
I will call a few places to get a second opinion. Could we change the
wiring in the box so that the wires and the fuse match without having
to rewire the entire house?
> That the wires and the fuses don't match means that it should be evaluated and repaired by a licensed and insured electrical contractor. Any wires and fuses that don’t match will have to be re-wired.
Or do the wires that are attached to the fuse box then go thru those poles in the ceiling in the laundry room and the attics? Do you agree with what he said, in paragragh one and two above? My "handyman" was suppose to return this week to do the shed in the backyard and I have not heard from him nor does he take my
calls. (I had given him $240 for wood for the shed to buy from Home Depot a while back when he bought the GCFI's. Maybe he got offended when you told him off.
> I told you that that "handyman" (actually, an inexperienced, stupid and dangerous rip-off artist, just like I told you last week) should give you back your money and pay you back for your work.
Also, did you tell me that the blown in insulation in an attic should be able to breathe and not be packed down tightly?
> No. I told you that the blown-in was fine.
Does that apply to the blanket insulation that we used?
No. I told you this, as well.
Because we do kind of have it packed down tightly especially under the electical poles in the attic, because if you lay the blanket insulation over the electical poles, then you won't know it's there and you could step on it. Will there be mold or other problems if this insulation is packed too tight and cannot breathe?
No. The insulation (after it was changed from what your "handyman" did is just fine.
I would like your opinion.
> If you ask for my opinion, please listen to the answer. I am perfectly willing to help, but if you don't listen, and you keep asking the same questions, over and over again, like 23+ times about "raccoons are attracted to rotted wood", or "are the GFCI's OK for the refrigerator", I do not expect to be asked again.
> Please excuse my abruptness, but you do not seem to be interested in answers, but only in your questions. I understand your concerns and that you have been swindled by the people who I warned you about, but why do you still keep questioning the only person who has been honest with you?
Thanks"

[Bob Elliott]

Sounds like you had to read here the riot act ,Will.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by dmcauley

Robert,
The age of GFCI was for information only. I never use a time frame for GFCIs when inspecting for a client or around my house. How would I or you know when the GFCI was installed at an inspection? Come on Bob you are much better than that.

Hi Dennis (I am)
Glad you are too.

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Great thing about Illinos is that Handymen that call themselves General Contractors don't have to be licensed.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

Great thing about Illinos is that Handymen that call themselves General Contractors don't have to be licensed.

In some areas, they do have to be "licensed", but not a state license and getting the license involves no testing or qualifications, just a 1Mil G/L policy and a $35 fee.

Your point is valid, though. Manytimes they are former commodities traders who are calling themselves General Contractors.

[rmaday]

Will,

Why didn't you simply defer to a licensed, insured electrical contractor?

I think she may have needed to hear it 5-6 more times to sink in.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by rmaday

Will,

Why didn't you simply defer to a licensed, insured electrical contractor?

I think she may have needed to hear it 5-6 more times to sink in.

I do believe that I did, Rick.

As they say, you can't cure stupid.

Sad, really.

[Bob Elliott]

I have one on Monday where the roof was trashed and it supposed to be fixed.

One dollar says he sent the handy man up with a bucket of tar.

Torn material all over the parapet walls. (can;t wait)