Hot Breaker & Moisture Seen With IR

[John McKenna]

Suprise... Hot breaker found at the bottom of panel (I turned it off after the picture and
told the the owner of the house). It did not feel that warm on the front so I am glad
the IR camera found it. It was a 15 amp breaker with correct wire size.

Did the breaker trip off? No.

So what provides better protection from being sued... the SoP or aggressive inspection
methods and tools?

Now you know why I use the IR camera on ALL inspections. No exceptions.



Looks like a fine fireplace with dry walls? Wrong.
Moisture found above the mantel with IR camera. Your blind without it.





Watch Thermal Imaging Video

[Charley L. Bottger]

John I also have had my training and I question what you are showing especially on the breaker. You are not giving any specifics such as emissivity settings, reflective, What angle you were standing to the wall with the glass pic. The breaker indicated 272 degrees but you stated it did not feel that hot. 272 degrees you could not touch and their would have been something melted. I can make the camera read that high on a breaker with the wrong emissivity setting. What did your infrared thermometer read on the breaker. What did your moisture meter detect on the wall in relation to what your camera was detecting. Don't take me wrong I believe in these cameras also but I also believe in backing the camera with another test device as they taught in class.
Just as an after thought the fireplace you are indicating moisture within could also have been effected by a circulating ceiling fan or an A/C register pointed toward the wall.

[rwand1]

So what provides better protection from being sued... the SoP or aggressive inspection methods and tools?

We know that the SOP have withstood the legal litmus tests.
Is there a SOP for home inspections which set the standards for its use and limitations? If not the courts will most likely set one when a peeved client feels some home inspector with a IR camera was negligent in rendering an opinion or omitting a scan or other instance where they feel harmed or suffered a loss.

Is there an SOP for use of IR by the industry?

Cheers,

[ldapkus]

I always check areas with a moisture meter. And like Charlie said cool air blowing on the surface always appears darker or wet. Corners almost always are cooler and not moist.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by cbottger

John I also have had my training and I question what you are showing especially on the breaker. You are not giving any specifics such as emissivity settings, reflective, What angle you were standing to the wall with the glass pic. The breaker indicated 272 degrees but you stated it did not feel that hot. 272 degrees you could not touch and their would have been something melted. I can make the camera read that high on a breaker with the wrong emissivity setting. What did your infrared thermometer read on the breaker. What did your moisture meter detect on the wall in relation to what your camera was detecting. Don't take me wrong I believe in these cameras also but I also believe in backing the camera with another test device as they taught in class.
Just as an after thought the fireplace you are indicating moisture within could also have been effected by a circulating ceiling fan or an A/C register pointed toward the wall.

Breaker was so hot underneath that I could not touch it.
The front felt a little warm but the heat was coming off
the bottom. The plastic had deformed a little and I turned
if off before any real damage took place.

Wall had tons of moisture showing with moisture meter.

Emissivity settings, and reflective consideration did not matter
on this find, since it was verfied with double and triple methods.

When you say to use other methods to verify, you are preaching
to the choir. All I can say is Amen!

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by rwand1

We know that the SOP have withstood the legal litmus tests.
Is there a SOP for home inspections which set the standards for its use and limitations? If not the courts will most likely set one when a peeved client feels some home inspector with a IR camera was negligent in rendering an opinion or omitting a scan or other instance where they feel harmed or suffered a loss.

Is there an SOP for use of IR by the industry?

Cheers,

I will let the inspectors who get sued for moisture, mold and decay tell you
how much the SoP protected them. I don't want any of my clients to
have their house burn down... so I will try and find all I can.

Others can debate about the legal issues and I will avoid staying out
of court by finding as much as I can. I'm sure there are other inspectors
who are smarter than me, but this is my plan.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by ldapkus

I always check areas with a moisture meter. And like Charlie said cool air blowing on the surface always appears darker or wet. Corners almost always are cooler and not moist.

Ditto, but not this time.
It was good old water penetration.

[John McKenna]

Why debate the obvious? Your not building my confidence guys.
The breaker was HOT and the wall was WET. Trust me, I was there.

[ldapkus]

How did the moisture get behind the wall? Was it sweating?

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by ldapkus

How did the moisture get behind the wall? Was it sweating?

Chimney flashing leak.
Happens all the time.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Why debate the obvious? Your not building my confidence guys.
The breaker was HOT and the wall was WET. Trust me, I was there.

Not questioning your ability John but the way your post came across especially to someone not using the camera made it sound like some miracle tool. No by no means was I there but anytime is see glass as in your Pic makes me automatically cautious.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by cbottger

Not questioning your ability John but the way your post came across especially to someone not using the camera made it sound like some miracle tool. No by no means was I there but anytime is see glass as in your Pic makes me automatically cautious.

The dark areas around the mirror is the moisture problem.
I never intended to worry about the mirror.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

The dark areas around the mirror is the moisture problem.
I never intended to worry about the mirror.

Your E setting is not displayed in your pic as Linus is do you remember what the setting was. Just curious

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by cbottger

Your E setting is not displayed in your pic as Linus is do you remember what the setting was. Just curious

The E setting will not affect the image on the display.
Once you find the anomaly in the image then you verify it with
a moisture meter. The E setting of no value in finding and then
verifying a moisture area.

After you try and set your E settings, I can be through the rest
of the house finding more problem areas.

[ldapkus]

Here are some papers on emissivity:
http://www.callpie.com/documents/sea...ramation06.pdf
http://www.flirthermography.com/medi...holm_FINAL.pdf