Instead of blowing up Iraq

[Peter C. Russell]

We should be spending more at home. this is a job I'm finishing, it's a HUD funded grant to homeowners, we help them repair their homes and as long as they stay there for X amount of years, I think it's 5, they don't have to pay back the grant money. At this home we replaced all the windows including 5 skylights, the roof, repaired the siding and now we're putting in a new well and septic system for them.

Just think of the billions we have wasted in Iraq, it's a shame because there is a real need for more of this at home.

There were 10 home's in my county that received grants and I bet the number of people how need it was more than double.

We do what we can, I just wish it helped more.

[A Dan Leleika]

Every little bit helps, Peter. We have a similar program here in my town.

Keep up the good deeds.

[William J. Decker]

A good point, and a good deed.

One thing. We are not 'blowing up' Iraq. We are 'blowing up' the bad guys whoi just happen to be in Iraq. We are doing so in order to protect those who live in Iraq and are not bad guys.

Hope this helps;

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by prussell

We should be spending more at home. this is a job I'm finishing, it's a HUD funded grant to homeowners, we help them repair their homes and as long as they stay there for X amount of years, I think it's 5, they don't have to pay back the grant money. At this home we replaced all the windows including 5 skylights, the roof, repaired the siding and now we're putting in a new well and septic system for them.

Just think of the billions we have wasted in Iraq, it's a shame because there is a real need for more of this at home.

There were 10 home's in my county that received grants and I bet the number of people how need it was more than double.

We do what we can, I just wish it helped more.

Peter,

I agree with you 100%!! Almost a trillion dollars spent (that is directly accounted for) in Iraq and Afghanistan in the name of keeping America safe. Yet we have so many people in need here that are totally forgotten. That money could have easily paid for significant improvements in security on our own soil and there would have been more than enough left to take care of so many of those in need!!

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by wdecker

A good point, and a good deed.

One thing. We are not 'blowing up' Iraq. We are 'blowing up' the bad guys whoi just happen to be in Iraq. We are doing so in order to protect those who live in Iraq and are not bad guys.

Hope this helps;

I agree with you Will, but I can't and did not support this from the beginning.

I voted for Bush and before we went into Iraq I was for it, when they could not find WMD I thought we should stay out of it.

There is a tremendous need for resources right here at home that are being neglected, we should strengthen our own society first then make our contributions to the world second.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by escanlan

Peter,

I agree with you 100%!! Almost a trillion dollars spent (that is directly accounted for) in Iraq and Afghanistan in the name of keeping America safe. Yet we have so many people in need here that are totally forgotten. That money could have easily paid for significant improvements in security on our own soil and there would have been more than enough left to take care of so many of those in need!!

But, in reality, it would just have been siphoned off into corruption, like the $450 Mill that 'just disappeared' in New Orleans.

At least, in Iraq, it is being accounted for, used for its intended purpose and doing some good.

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by wdecker

But, in reality, it would just have been siphoned off into corruption, like the $450 Mill that 'just disappeared' in New Orleans.

At least, in Iraq, it is being accounted for, used for its intended purpose and doing some good.

Will, my point with this thread was to hi-light the need here at home, we have programs that are in place to help Americans that truly need it.

They are our neighbors and these programs are so underfunded it's ridiculous.

I understand that war sometimes is a necessity but my belief is not at the sacrifice of fellow Americans at home.

[jbreazeale]

We need not have gone into Iraq in the first place. The "intelligence" that got us there was questionable from the beginning, spearheaded by Iraqi ex-patriots for the most part, who felt they could step into the power vacuum left behind by the ouster of Saddam. Now, we're stuck in a quagmire of desert quicksand with no easy way out. All those billions would have funded not only some sorely needed projects here at home, but others the world over as well. Anybody who remembers the lies (can you say "Gulf of Tonkin?") that got us heavily involved in Vietnam should be able to see what is happening here. The biggest thing that has been accomplished thus far is the elevation of Iran as a power broker in the region.

And before anybody comes in with their "God, Mom, and Apple Pie" crap, let me stress that my opinion has nothing to do with veterans. I would not for one second support one thing that would diminish the ability of our men and women in uniform over there to both defend themselves and do the unsavory work they are being asked to do. Far from it. I myself am a veteran of six years service (not NG), and have friends who bear the emotional scars of Vietnam. What I am saying is that our money, time, and foriegn policy is better directed toward more noble efforts. Like actually doing something to elevate mankind.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by prussell

Will, my point with this thread was to hi-light the need here at home, we have programs that are in place to help Americans that truly need it.

They are our neighbors and these programs are so underfunded it's ridiculous.

I understand that war sometimes is a necessity but my belief is not at the sacrifice of fellow Americans at home.

I understand and mostly agree. But, I would respond, there will always be needs at home. Isolationism has never worked (as history shows) and usually only makes things worse, in the long run.

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by wdecker

I understand and mostly agree. But, I would respond, there will always be needs at home. Isolationism has never worked (as history shows) and usually only makes things worse, in the long run.

I understand as well but don't you think some of that money is better spent here, take our infrastructure for example.

[Peter C. Russell]

PS. Will, I do not think the US has ever been accused of Isolationism, has it?

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jbreazeale

We need not have gone into Iraq in the first place. The "intelligence" that got us there was questionable from the beginning, spearheaded by Iraqi ex-patriots for the most part, who felt they could step into the power vacuum left behind by the ouster of Saddam.

Every major countries intelligence services had the same info. It was the established policy of the U.S., set during the Clinton administration, to do 'regime change' in Iraq. This was the policy of the U.S. and of the U.N. The only difference was that some take those policies seriously and some do so only for show.

Also, remember, the 1st Iraq war never ended (only a cease fire) and Saddam kept shooting missles at our planes for many years.

WMD's were only one of 12 reasons for the war.

Now, we're stuck in a quagmire of desert quicksand with no easy way out. All those billions would have funded not only some sorely needed projects here at home, but others the world over as well. Anybody who remembers the lies (can you say "Gulf of Tonkin?") that got us heavily involved in Vietnam should be able to see what is happening here. The biggest thing that has been accomplished thus far is the elevation of Iran as a power broker in the region.

Do you understand the difference between a lie (purpouseful, knowing telling an untruth) and a mistake (working on the best available knowledge)?


And before anybody comes in with their "God, Mom, and Apple Pie" crap, let me stress that my opinion has nothing to do with veterans. I would not for one second support one thing that would diminish the ability of our men and women in uniform over there to both defend themselves and do the unsavory work they are being asked to do. Far from it. I myself am a veteran of six years service (not NG), and have friends who bear the emotional scars of Vietnam. What I am saying is that our money, time, and foriegn policy is better directed toward more noble efforts. Like actually doing something to elevate mankind.

Is ridding the world and a multiple rapist, murderer and international terroist supporter (paying $2,5000 to each Palistinian who blows himself up) a bad thing? Sure, we have to pick our battles and we cannot save the entire world, especially when most of the world does not want to be saved or made better.

But, we have to try.

There is nothing that better serves the troops than supporting the mission that they were given. What some waht to do is 'bug out', which does not help the troops.

BTW: All the troops are volunteers, know what the signed up for and want to do it.

Counterpoint?

[Peter C. Russell]

My counterpoint is this.

You are correct about the intelligence, but there was no proof that WND existed. My opinion was we should have stayed out.

That said, I was in favor of going all the way to Baghdad in the gulf war.

[A Dan Leleika]

Originally Posted by wdecker

But, in reality, it would just have been siphoned off into corruption, like the $450 Mill that 'just disappeared' in New Orleans.

At least, in Iraq, it is being accounted for, used for its intended purpose and doing some good.

Oh but its not ...the first $80 billion spent on the war did not go to Iraq.....5 million or so of that ear marked money got diverted to Florida for a security detail for the then Gov of that state...what was his name?

[pdoane]

Will, don't argue with a guy from New Hampshire. They put "Live Free or Die" on their license plates! That serious patriotism at its finest!