"Letter to a Christian Nation"

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Again you misunderstand the term "fear" in those passages.

Even a 5 year old in Sunday School could explain most of them to you so I won't bother..

You ignorance remains on display.

Again, we come to the unanswered question. Why do you have the right to decide which verses are allegorical/metaphoric and which ones are literal. What reasoning does anyone have for this?

[klott]

Originally Posted by jburkeson1

Thankfully there is nothing contained in this quotation that would lead anyone to believe that Christianity had or has anything whatsoever to do with the Constitution. Time to move on, following are some more of the many quotations attributed to John Adams. Choose the one you most feel comfortable with.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
-letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes."
- letter to John Taylor

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"

"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."

"Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?"

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
.

And of course my most very favorite Adams quotation...

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

I don't believe he wrote any of those quotes, and you cannot prove he did!

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Even a 5 year old in Sunday School could explain most of them to you so I won't bother..

Ahhhhh, good one.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by kpierce

Again, we come to the unanswered question. Why do you have the right to decide which verses are allegorical/metaphoric and witch ones are literal. What reasoning does anyone have for this?

When you read anything Kev, you use the rules of context and interpretation without even thinking about it, yet you have chosen to ignore those same rules when it comes to understanding the bible.

[klott]

Originally Posted by kpierce

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills."

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

-Thomas Jefferson

You cannot prove that he said any of that.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by klott

....and you cannot prove he did!

Correct. What's your point?

[klott]

Originally Posted by kpierce

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."

"The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason."


-Benjamin Franklin

You are a liar Kevin, Franklin never said that.

[Michael Larson]

Some one throw Kevin a life raft, he's sinking.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by mlarson

When you read anything Kev, you use the rules of context and interpretation without even thinking about it, yet you have chosen to ignore those same rules when it comes to understanding the bible.

Non-answer.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by kpierce

Non-answer.

Wrong again.

I'll simplify it for you.

You choose to read the bible without using the same rules you apply when reading the paper or any other book.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Some one throw Kevin a life raft, he's sinking.

You believe in fairytales anyway, why not another one to top it off.

[klott]

Originally Posted by jburkeson1

That scenario only works when you don't have militant religious fanatics attempting to prevent other free citizens from exercising their constitutional rights to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness.

You will never experience any of these, because you have to live with yourself, you just like to blame God, because you are not man enough to admit that you are screwed up!

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by kpierce

You believe in fairytales anyway, why not another one to top it off.

Keep trying Kev. I'm sure you have a few breathes left.

We hope so anyway.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Wrong again.

I'll simplify it for you.

You choose to read the bible without using the same rules you apply when reading the paper or any other book.

I understand your assertion. The question is why mortal men think they can pick and choose the meanings of supernatural written verses on an as-needed basis?

[klott]

Originally Posted by kpierce

How intuitive and genius of you all knowing Michael. I've told you that I cannot say there is no god from day one. You're blind, ignorant, hypocritical faith shines again.

That you admit this, makes you the dumbest person around! That you will chance everything, by bad mouthing him, makes you even worse than I had imagined.