InterNACHI


Go Back   InterNACHI Inspection Forum > General Inspection Topics > Miscellaneous Discussion for Inspectors

Notices

Miscellaneous Discussion for Inspectors Discuss whatever you wish in this forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10/3/08, 1:21 PM
kpierce's Avatar
kpierce kpierce is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Orting, WA
Posts: 4,605
Please Note: kpierce is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Is McCain able?

Is McCain Able?
Electing a Head Case

October2, 2008
I frankly don’t believe John McCain’s medical records, or at any rate the portions released to the New York Times. The man was held in solitary for years, tortured until bones fractured, until he confessed to war crimes, until he tried to hang himself.

That he broke can’t be held against him: Almost anyone would have. (In my view GIs should be told to confess to anything whatever right from the start.) But the assertion that he came through unscathed, warm and humorous and psychically sound, just isn’t plausible. It doesn’t happen that way.

Now, PTSD. A lot of people, including vets, don’t believe that PTSD exists. I didn’t. One reason is that they tend to think of it as something verging on the psychotic, as for example seeing nonexistent snipers in the hedgerows of suburban Philadelphia. The other common notion is that those who have it dive under tables at the sound of a backfire. Vets tend to think, “I don’t know anybody like that. I certainly don’t see snipers in the rafters. This whole PTSD business sounds like a crock.”

So it does. But it isn’t.

And of course many people, chiefly men, regard with suspicion anything that smells of psychobabble, anything touchy-feely. To them PTSD sounds like Can’t-Get-a-Date Personality Disorder—something for Oprah to talk about to bored housewives. So they dismiss it.
Let me de-babble the discussion and state a simple fact: A lot of guys come back from wars really, truly messed up in the head, and it doesn’t go away. They aren’t going to talk to you about it. They figure it’s none of your goddamned business. If you push, they will tell you so, angrily.

If you weren’t in those forsaken paddies, they think, if you didn’t go through what they did, you’re off their radar screens. They’ll talk to you about football, the weather, and whatever happened in the newspaper yesterday. Just don’t even try to talk about Viet Nam. Or whatever war it was. They don’s want to think about it, and talking about it to weenies feels like being naked in a train station.

There are a lot of these brain-burnt guys out there. They don’t want your pity. They don’t pity themselves. They just don’t want to expose that part of themselves to you. They put a wall around themselves. You can’t see it. It’s there.

Often they seem like fairly normal guys with three divorces who drink too much and their children say, “It was like he was somewhere else.” Perfectly normal guys who have had seventeen jobs because their bosses are always useless bastards. Perfectly normal guys who live out in the desert and do serious scuba or hang glide because they just don’t give a ****.
Not all. Some manage to hold it together and become things thought to be respectable, such as senators or writers or defense attorneys. A subsurface lode of hostility can be useful in a trial lawyer. Anger is energizing. It can fuel a career.

With PTSD, or whatever you want to call it, the anger is the giveaway. These vets carry a load of subterranean fury that you don’t want to look at. As they would say, I **** you not one pound. I know a lot of these guys. A buddy of mine—two tours in bad places, killed a whole lot of people up close-- now has no tolerance for frustration,. He's ready to spread your teeth over a wide radius if you even seem to think about getting in his face. Admirable? No. But don’t make the experiment.

Sounds like McCain. His explosiveness is notorious.

Another guy I know, writer, freelanced all his life because he couldn’t get along with people in offices. A writer can package this as sturdy independence, as being a colorful maverick. The fellow is approximately sane, or at least apparently sane. Get three drinks in him, bring up the war, and his voice starts shaking and it’s time to change the subject right now.
A fair few PTSD guys become writers: It’s solitary, you don’t have to put up with bosses, and you don’t have to be stable.

How do these vets get this way? Not by anything you want to hear about, anything that you will see on the nightly news. The RPG hits your tank, the cherry juice cooks off, and three of your buddies burn to death screaming because they couldn’t get out fast enough. You lose a leg and half you face to a mortar round. You just see things: A Chicom 122 cuts a cyclo driver in half and you watch him trying to crawl with his guts hanging out. He doesn’t crawl long. You get shot down over Hanoi and spend years being tortured. The military is a fun place. You have all sorts of unusual experiences.

It messes your head up. I promise.

I said anger—yes, but anger at what? At whom? Here I’m on soft ground because vets don’t talk much about this stuff among themselves. At least those I know don’t. But, to the extent that I am competent to judge, they aren’t mad at those who shot them, or shot at them. “The VC were only doing their job.” They hate those who sent them to a pointless war, who exposed them in thousands to Agent Orange, knowing that it was poisonous and carcinogenic, at those posing fat-*** pols who sent them to die for nothing while they ate prime rib in DC.
Or they just hate. Psychologically the verb can be intransitive. They don’t know what they hate, but don’t get in the way of it.

Not all respond this way. Some choose to intensify their patriotism—it avoids admitting that you have been suckered—and direct their hatred at the hippies, the liberals, the press, all of whom they figure lost the war. But the anger is still there. Most of the time, you don’t notice it. They turn off, often seem emotionally cold. But that explosive venom remains. We’re not talking about a fiery Irish temper. We’re talking half crazy.

Those who seek help, typically from the VA, end up on Thissa-dol and Thatta-dol, on antidepressants and calmants and even antipsychotics. They sorta help. Sorta isn’t good enough with men who control carrier battle groups.

From the New York Times story, “Mr. McCain also learned to control his temper and not to become angry over insignificant things, the doctors said.” I don’t believe it. It doesn’t fit accounts of people who know him. It isn’t how heads work.

McCain is well known for his violent and irrational temper. A friend of mine, Ken Smith, was flack for Governor Mecham of Arizona during a meeting with McCain. The governor somehow irritated McCain. Says Ken, “McCain was leaning forward with a clinched fist. I reached out my left arm, as politely and as non-threatening as I could, and I pushed McCain back. What I remember is how taut and hard his body was, not from working out and lifting weights, but rather from anger and adrenalin. I made an excuse to leave and get them apart.”

For what he went through in Vietnamese jails he deserves sympathy and admiration. It isn’t qualification for the presidency.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10/3/08, 1:30 PM
Michael Larson's Avatar
Michael Larson Michael Larson is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hudson, WI including the Twin Cities of MN
Posts: 30,554
Default Re: Is McCain able?

Kevin, did you intend to present this piece as your own?

See this link



He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
- Henry Rosovsky-Harvard

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI
InspectraPro
and
Minnesota Home Inspector

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10/3/08, 1:33 PM
Randy D. Stufflebeem's Avatar
Randy D. Stufflebeem Randy D. Stufflebeem is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Galesburg, IL
Posts: 3,276
Default Re: Is McCain able?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
Kevin, did you intend to present this piece as your own?

See this link
Dog gone and I thought! How creative!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10/3/08, 1:42 PM
kpierce's Avatar
kpierce kpierce is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Orting, WA
Posts: 4,605
Please Note: kpierce is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Is McCain able?

Nope. I just got it in an email and it didn't have a source.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10/3/08, 1:42 PM
kpierce's Avatar
kpierce kpierce is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Orting, WA
Posts: 4,605
Please Note: kpierce is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Is McCain able?

Thanks for finding it though.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10/3/08, 1:43 PM
Randy D. Stufflebeem's Avatar
Randy D. Stufflebeem Randy D. Stufflebeem is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Galesburg, IL
Posts: 3,276
Default Re: Is McCain able?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpierce View Post
Nope. I just got it in an email and it didn't have a source.
Sounds like our U.S. press!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10/3/08, 1:44 PM
kpierce's Avatar
kpierce kpierce is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Orting, WA
Posts: 4,605
Please Note: kpierce is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Is McCain able?

Any comments on the article or just questions about where it came from?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10/3/08, 1:46 PM
Michael Larson's Avatar
Michael Larson Michael Larson is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hudson, WI including the Twin Cities of MN
Posts: 30,554
Default Re: Is McCain able?

I wonder if anyone listens to good old Fred.

Here is his HOME PAGE



He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
- Henry Rosovsky-Harvard

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI
InspectraPro
and
Minnesota Home Inspector

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10/3/08, 2:25 PM
Randy D. Stufflebeem's Avatar
Randy D. Stufflebeem Randy D. Stufflebeem is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Galesburg, IL
Posts: 3,276
Default Re: Is McCain able?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
I wonder if anyone listens to good old Fred.

Here is his HOME PAGE

I like the hat and cigar but the sunglasses gotta go!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Watch what the Democrats do... klott Miscellaneous Discussion for Inspectors 245 9/24/08 7:12 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 4:03 AM.


Popular Sections

:

All Sections

Inspection News

InterNACHI Membership

Inspection Standards

Inspection Education

InterNACHI Inspectors

Inspection Links

 

 

 

NACHI.ORG Statistics

 

 

no new posts