Need your advice!!!

[Karl E. Gerhauser]

BTW, if you have'nt been watching it, you Governor just said "These are not 100 yr but 500 yr flood conditions" on the Today show this morning. You have your governor backing up your case. Even if someone tried to hold you responsible for sump pump or other drainage sizing, they should lose with this type of conditions.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by bgrover

NACHI Friends,

Need your input-A recent client (2 months ago) is trying to "give their house back to original owners based on the fact that they are taking in significant water in the basement. ...

My client feels the original home owners did not disclose full extent of water issue which on the disclosure stated that there had been water once upon a time but they put in a sump pump and had no problems since...

My clients don't believe that based on the water they are getting in the basement.

Karl,

What part of the above makes you think this will NOT end up in court?
Speaking to a lawyer may very well be in the best interests of the OP to make sure he doesn't become a party to any suit.

Also, this "new inspection" that the current owners want will probably become key evidence if this indeed does go to court.

The current owners (who want to "give back" the house) may be way out of line, given the current rainfall conditions, but in order to properly prepare himself for ANY part of possible (and likely) litigation, the OP should contact a lawyer for a consultation (at a minimum). And yes, one who is well versed in RE law is a must.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by kgerhauser

BTW, due to the act of Gawd that Frank talked about (the 500 yr flood conditions in your area) you clients probably have no leg to stand on.

500 YEAR FLOOD!

Case closed!

Since they had a "finished basement" with carpet & tile this is now an "insurance claim" and should be handled accordingly.

Nothing in your 2nd inspection that has to be conducted according to the NACHI Standards of Practice can or will cover "Flooding".

Flood Waters came in through a window. Plain & Simple..... end of story!

Even if the land sloped down and away from the house {6-inches in the first 10-feet} this could not have been prevented.

Even if the window wells were 12-inches or deeper and drained properly this could not have been prevented.

My only concern is this...... is the sump pump working or not? Did the GFCI "trip" and is the pump shut off?


Another thing..... If the pump was working on the day of your inspection then this is NOT your concern.

PS:
The "Sump Pump" has NOTHING to do with the FLOODING!
I also suggest that you contact Joe Ferry.

[Karl E. Gerhauser]

I'm not sure what here led you to believe I was saying not to talk to an attorny? I merely stated I'm not positive I personally would. I even qualified it with "it could not hurt and your mileage may vary and none of us are attornys". I want to make sure that NO ONE especially bgrover, thinks I would talk anyone out of consulting an attorny if they think it may help their position. None of us can make that decision for another, be it yes or no.

Originally Posted by kgerhauser

None of us are attornys, kinda like chicken soup "it couldn't hurt". Most attornys are not well versed in this issues. Make sure you talk to one that is. Maybe Joe Ferry? IMHO, I personally feel the attorny in this case may not be necessary. Your milage may vary.

[rmaday]

This..

Originally Posted by kgerhauser

Most attornys are not well versed in this issues...

IMHO, I personally feel the attorny in this case may not be necessary.

Glad you clarified it, Thanks.

Given the current conditions, I also don't believe that the current owners are going to get anywhere - unless they truly want to "give" the house back rather than "sell" the house back.

It doesn't take much these days to file a lawsuit and once that happens no one wins (except the lawyers).

[Karl E. Gerhauser]

My thoughts have been runnig the same way. I'm not sure of the usefulness of a 2nd inspection. To assist my clients, I would recommend a qualifed basement contractor to help with the situation and of course go out free of charge to look at issues like the pump and "blocked drainage". Of course if they really want another inspection I would not refuse to do it.

Originally Posted by fcarrio

500 YEAR FLOOD!

Case closed!

Since they had a "finished basement" with carpet & tile this is now an "insurance claim" and should be handled accordingly.

Nothing in your 2nd inspection that has to be conducted according to the NACHI Standards of Practice can or will cover "Flooding".

Flood Waters came in through a window. Plain & Simple..... end of story!

Even if the land sloped down and away from the house {6-inches in the first 10-feet} this could not have been prevented.

Even if the window wells were 12-inches or deeper and drained properly this could not have been prevented.

My only concern is this...... is the sump pump working or not? Did the GFCI "trip" and is the pump shut off?


Another thing..... If the pump was working on the day of your inspection then this is NOT your concern.

PS:
The "Sump Pump" has NOTHING to do with the FLOODING!
I also suggest that you contact Joe Ferry.

[Karl E. Gerhauser]

AMEN, maybe managing their expectations and their understanding of the severe conditions may calm them down. I have to take someting back!! Insurance will usually not cover for flood conditions, unless you have a flood policy.

Originally Posted by rmaday

It doesn't take much these days to file a lawsuit and once that happens no one wins (except the lawyers).

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

500 YEAR FLOOD!

Case closed!

Since they had a "finished basement" with carpet & tile this is now an "insurance claim" and should be handled accordingly.

Nothing in your 2nd inspection that has to be conducted according to the NACHI Standards of Practice can or will cover "Flooding".

My guess is they do not have "flood insurance"

Originally Posted by fcarrio

I also suggest that you contact Joe Ferry.

Excellent advice.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by bgrover

Should I re-inspect and should I contact an attorney to be prepared ?

We live in a litigious society and people will sue you if you sneeze too loud!

The more that I think about it I believe that you should go back to this house and document / photograph the "High Water marks" on the OUTSIDE of this house.

Make sure that you take photos showing that it due to the FLOODING it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for you or anyone else to keep the water out of the house.

If you talk to these people again....Be sympathetic, express concern and regret about ALL of the homes that have been damaged in their area.

Bye the way.....This would be a GOOD time to advertise about inspecting SUMP PUMPS, basements, bulkheads, and window wells in the flooded areas.

• If you are a CERTIFIED MOLD Inspector I would think that you have just fallen into a Gold Mine!
  
• In three to four weeks I can GUARANTEE you that there will be many, many people in need of Mold Inspections.
  
• My lowest Price starts at $1,250.00 and goes up from there!

You could go "Door to Door" in this neighborhood and leave "Door Hangers" advertising your inspection company!


Remember..... You can always turn Lemons into Lemonade!

[nwagner]

Originally Posted by bgrover

NACHI Friends,

Need your input-A recent client (2 months ago) is trying to "give their house back to original owners based on the fact that they are taking in significant water in the basement. They are not upset with me-I did not find anything that caused alarm in the inspection, the sump pump worked fine, no moisture levels in basement-everything was good. We have had an extreme winter and spring with precipitation-record snowfall and rain-we are in Iowa. My client feels the original home owners did not disclose full extent of water issue which on the disclosure stated that there had been water once upon a time but they put in a sump pump and had no problems since. My clients don't believe that based on the water they are getting in the basement. They would like me to do another inspection with the current state of the basement and water damage. Is that a good idea? Would one report contradict another? I am confident about my first report. They did ask me to at least just come and look and give advice. I looked but offered no advice. I am trying to take care of my clients but also take care of my business. Should I do another inspection? Would I create greater liability for myself? Thank you in advance for your input!

Ummm, every basement in my neighborhood flooded a few days ago. A few of them are old timers who claim this is the first time that has ever happened. With the obscene amount of snow that thawed just a few months ago coupled with that rediculous amount of rainfall within a 24 hour period, could you expect most sump pumps installed after construction to keep up with the groundwater table?

[iniquette]

Follow Frank''s advice. House from Missouri all the way to Michigan are flooded right now. More than likely an act of Gawd.

[bgrover]

Thanks for everything you guy's. If you could give me some information on, getting in contact with Joe Ferry that would be great.

[Karl E. Gerhauser]

The best info I have is here: http://www.nachi.tv/episode26

He is also a member username jferry1 I don't know if he accepts PMs or not.

[William J. Decker]

I have done 3 inspections and 2 "consultations" (2 inspections and 1 consult for previous clients) for people who have had "flooding" (actually, seepage. The water wasn't 1 foot deep, just seepage) this week.

All were newer (under 5 years old) with basement's finished at the time of construction. None of the clients had any bad words for me, or wahted to give the house back. They just wanted an evaluation of the situation, advice on remediation (also did 4 mold inspections and will be doing clearance testing). Many saw that situations that I called out, during a previous inspection (extend downspouts, re-grade, extend sump pump pipes further from the house) and recognized that they had dropped the ball, not me.

More inspections, more money (but I do give a return inspection discount )

I have common verbiage for this:

"It is not recommended that new construction houses have finished basements. As the house goes through the normal settling process, some small vertical cracks will, most probably, develop in the foundation wall. These cracks are normal and can, easily and inexpensively, be fixed by urethane injection. Once the settling process has completed, the basements can then be finished.

It is also recommended that any carpeting NOT be installed directly on the concrete basement slab. even in the absence of active water seepage, there will still be significant moisture condensation on the slab which will, eventually, cause damage to the carpeting. It is highly recommended that any basement carpeting be installed over a floor spacing product such as DriCor that will provide the necessary spacing between the slab and the carpet. Proper basement finishing aways calls for spacing of the drywall at least 1" above the basement slab, so as to avoid any seepage to be wicked up the drywall. All basement walls should be constructed with pressure treated lumber. Pleas, hire on professional, licensed and insured contractors when you are finishing your basement. We will always be available to help you evaluate the proper requirements for finishing basements.

It is also highly recommended that the client purchase a good quality de-humidifier and run it during the warm months as a guard against excessive moisture. Basements are, and will always be, more moist and humid than the rest of the house."

Hope this helps;