New advanced, online, video course on inspecting crawlspaces.

[Nick Gromicko]

http://www.nachi.org/advancedcourses.htm

[John McKenna]

Cool

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Cool

No. It was not cool. It was anything but.

One of the crawlspace in the video was less than 24 inches high, dirt floor, wet, muddy, moldy, toilet was leaking, odors, a bucket full of ****, spiders, etc.

But Kenton and I had a lot of fun doing it. Took two days of shooting in crawlspaces to make the 1 hour video.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

One of the crawlspace in the video was less than 24 inches high, dirt floor, wet, muddy, moldy, toilet was leaking, odors, a bucket full of ****, spiders, etc.

I would have thought that an "advanced" class in crawlspaces would have advised home inspectors to avoid entering dangerous areas such as what you just described.

As you place your hand in the first moist spot of the dirt floor in the 24 inch high space...not knowing about the live, unterminated wire lying at the bottom of the same puddle in the corner darkened by a shadow caused by your flashlight...you could be immediately electrocuted.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I would have thought that an "advanced" class in crawlspaces would have advised home inspectors to avoid entering dangerous areas such as what you just described.

As you place your hand in the first moist spot of the dirt floor in the 24 inch high space...not knowing about the live, unterminated wire lying at the bottom of the same puddle in the corner darkened by a shadow caused by your flashlight...you could be immediately electrocuted.

But that's what makes life fun! LOL
If I had to excuse myself from all of the unsafe areas in which I conducted my inspections, my inspections would probably take only 30 minutes to do.

Sewer odors, water damage, mold, mud, moisture, lions, tigers, bears - OH MY. I couldn't resist going in.

It would have been a sh*tty video - if Kenton and I had paid paid mind to what our mothers might say.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I would have thought that an "advanced" class in crawlspaces would have advised home inspectors to avoid entering dangerous areas such as what you just described.

Had you watched the video, and you haven't, you would have seen that the first 10 minutes of the video involves Kenton teaching about PPE. That's personal protection/protective equipment.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

Had you watched the video, and you haven't, you would have seen that the first 10 minutes of the video involves Kenton teaching about PPE. That's personal protection/protective equipment.

What PPE exists to protect me on my belly in a puddle of water that has a live wire in it, Ben? I need to buy their stock.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

But that's what makes life fun! LOL
If I had to excuse myself from all of the unsafe areas in which I conducted my inspections, my inspections would probably take only 30 minutes to do.

Sewer odors, water damage, mold, mud, moisture, lions, tigers, bears - OH MY. I couldn't resist going in.

It would have been a sh*tty video - if Kenton and I had paid paid mind to what our mothers might say.

Ben...I know you are smarter than this post. You have to be.

Do you know how many people are killed each year due to odorless gases in confined spaces? Do you know that, at lethal levels, hydrogen sulfide (sewer gas) cannot be detected by smell?

Your "advanced" video sounds like it was produced by a kindergarten class.

Originally Posted by OSHA says:

"The failure to take proper precautions for permit space entry operations has resulted in fatalities, as opposed to injuries, more frequently than would be predicted using the applicable Bureau of Labor Statistics models. OSHA notes that, by their very nature and configuration, many permit spaces contain atmospheres which, unless adequate precautions are taken, are immediately dangerous to life and health (IDLH). For example, many confined spaces are poorly ventilated - a condition that is favorable to the creation of an oxygen deficient atmosphere and to the accumulation of toxic gases.

Add to that the threat of electrocution due to mud and water you brag about playing in...in a house that you are inspecting due to its propensity for electrical defects...and your "advanced" advice is not only unworthy of a fee...but should come with a disclaimer.

This is sad.

[Michael Larson]

James,

Why not just list your objections and concerns instead of sniping?

We'll gain more from a real discussion than the display of acrimony.

Personally I don't enter unsafe crawl spaces as determined my me.

The state does provide some cover here for components that are not readily accessible.(edited)

There are not a lot of them in my area and I charge extra for them in any case unless they are very accessible as in 4 ft. of head clearance.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

James,

Why not just list your objections and concerns instead of sniping?

We'll gain more from a real discussion than the display of acrimony.

Personally I don't enter unsafe crawl spaces as determined my me.

The state does provide some cover here if the opening is less than 30" high.

There are not a lot of them in my area and I charge extra for them in any case unless they are very accessible as in 4 ft. of head clearance.

I am not sniping.

I asked how a course that teaches something that everyone must know how to do on their first inspection can be considered "advanced". I learned that it does not contain a "higher level" of information....just "more" information about related subjects such as radon, mold, etc.

Then I came across one of the most reckless and ill-informed posts I have ever read on this message board ---- someone professing to be "training" inspectors by way of video encouraging behavior that could cause injury or death.

I am responding to what I am being provided to read in the order that it is being published.

I'm still wanting to invest in that PPE that will save my life as I lay on my belly in a puddle full of live electricity. Is it a hard hat that will protect my head as I thrash around .... or special safety goggles that will keep my eyeballs from rolling around in the mud after they pop out of my head?

[Nick Gromicko]

I took the coruse and didn't see Kenton laying on his

belly in a puddle full of live electricity

...like he does at home for fun.

Jim, me thinks Ben is toying with you a bit.

[Michael Larson]

Watch the video Jim. Ben made you a great offer.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gromicko

I took the coruse and didn't see Kenton laying on his ...like he does at home for fun.

Jim, me thinks Ben is toying with you a bit.

Nick,

As an industry, we should be using OSHA standards and criteria to establish our own ability to refuse to risk our lives - and be getting support from our clients and real estate agents in these decisions - in the process of making $350.

I will not speak for Joe Farsetta, but he and I have had many conversations on this exact subject...and the real harm that is done to our industry when people are led to believe that $350 for a home inspection includes risk of life as a part of the standard fee.

Ben's statements in this thread do little to help, in that regard.

Training new inspectors to do the exact opposite of what OSHA requires of experienced employees is reckless.

Post Edit Note: While typing this post and discussing the building of an ADA compliant ramp to a day care to a day care center with a contractor, I received a nice voice message from Ben offering me to take the course for free and report on it.

I will.

But please understand that my objection is to your post and inference of "duty" to enter a dangerous area and is unlikely to change...until you change your post.

[Nick Gromicko]

The post you are complaining about is not part of the course.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gromicko

The post you are complaining about is not part of the course.

No, but it refers to:

One of the crawlspace in the video was less than 24 inches high, dirt floor, wet, muddy, moldy, toilet was leaking, odors, a bucket full of ****, spiders, etc.

If the video does not point to the crawlspace as being an unsafe area and advise the home inspector to avoid it, it is grossly deficient and errant in fact.