A new CMI formula. I've jumped to the other side of the fence.

[Henry Valenzano, CMI]

My sugustion for qualifications is

A home inspection school or corse ether a deploma or certificate
One hundred hours of continuing education,
Four or five years in business,
Four or five hundred inspections performed.

Law suites dont matter because people can sue for anything.

[Carl Pennick]

I agree with Greg This is becoming a joke last week it looked most people where on the same page. Now due to one person it's back how it was. I'm sorry Nick I don't think the CMI will be that important for inspectors to drop there prices just so they can put the logo on there web site. If they do it should be changed to CFI Complete F@#$ing Idiot

[Joe Farsetta]

My question to Greg goes to his ICC certification.

How many inspections performed before anyone can become ICC certified. In NY State, the program is free to anyone wanting to take it. Its about 6 weekends in total. Only buy the books.

With absolutely no experience to one's name, a person is magically certified to perform inspections in all areas of residential construction (except electrical) which deals specifically with the health and safety of the public at large.

You have repeatedly touted that ICC certification is the way to go for the HI community. I respectfully disagree with you on that one, but wioll not get into it here. My point goes to qualifying for a CMI designation.

The irony here is that the certificaton you hold most dear is determined exclusively by schooling, and not by experience (any relevent experience for that matter).

As to who can teach and what education is good or not good, I caution everyone that education is an art and not a science.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by cpennick

I agree with Greg This is becoming a joke last week it looked most people where on the same page. Now due to one person it's back how it was. I'm sorry Nick I don't think the CMI will be that important for inspectors to drop there prices just so they can put the logo on there web site. If they do it should be changed to CFI Complete F@#$ing Idiot

We have many trying to make a living charging $200:00 using the C&D book cost abou $35:00 Letters do not make or break the inspector. None have done any continuing education but the agents just love em no knowledge no problems they just CHI the industry. Just over 200 agents in my area and over 20 HIs. 15 are starving .
Roy Cooke sr. ... Royshomeinspection.com .
I charge about double

[Doug Edwards]

This discussion is right where it was last year when CMI was being discussed. Every person has their own idea and spin on what it should take. It is going to be damn difficult to hit this moving target and no one will be completely satisfied. The marker continues to move and then someone else weighs in with their opinion and then three come back with why it won't work or isn't valid. Now we are hearing that any education has to deemed good or bad. If you can't even come to a consensus on what the qualifications should be, how in the world will you decide what courses or classes are. There are literally thousands of classes and courses that meet the general criteria but now it appears that some are trying to pick the fly sh*t out of the pepper.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Becoming ICC certified in one or more professional categories represents a significant accomplishment that offers national recognition of your achievement; increased earning and career advancement potential; and proof of your knowledge, technical expertise and commitment to protect public health safety and welfare.

Q: Does ICC require a candidate to have a certain level of experience or education before taking an examination?

A: No. Most ICC examinations are open to all individuals with no prerequisite for experience or education. ICC certification should be used as one of several measures of an individual’s qualifications when screening applicants for a position. Inspectors should possess the right mix of technical knowledge, education and related experience. Because proper weighting of the relative importance of these three qualifications is a subjective decision, determining the emphasis of ICC certification is most appropriately performed at the local level by the building official. For this reason, ICC does not specify education or experience requirements for certification applicants for most categories.

If we too are seeking national recognition of achievement for CMI holders, I would suggest that just like ICC Certification holders, CMI holders should possess the right mix of technical knowledge, education and related experience.

[Nick Gromicko]

Joe B.:

NACHI is at 24 hours/year. See http://www.nachi.org/cont_education.htm So that would only be 48. ASHI's is less, 20 or 22 I think. Not enough. CMI is already at 150 and you can't do them afterwards. You have to have already completed 150 hours before you apply for CMI.

Joe F.:

ICC requires a grand total of zero inspections. You can be ICC certified without ever having done an single inspection.

Carl:

All I was saying was that there is plenty of proof of ASHI's come-only-with-cash Candidates (ASHI has no entrance requirements whatsoever) cutting their prices to get their inspections in. ASHI actually encourages this wrecking of our markets (dumping) by telling their Candidates that they have to do a certain number of inspections to achieve full membership. This downward pressure ASHI applies to the fees our profession charges on average is something CMI wants no hand in which is why I suggested a certain amount of invoices billed (upward pressure on fees), rather than number inspections performed (downward pressure).

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

NACHI is at 24 hours/year. See http://www.nachi.org/cont_education.htm So that would only be 48.

ASHI's is less, 20 or 22 I think. Not enough.

CMI is already at 150 and you can't do them afterwards. You have to have already completed 150 before you apply for CMI.

I was talking about after you achieve CMI designation using additional CEU's as part of the ongoing requirements to maintain your "master" standing.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

All I was saying was that there is plenty of proof of ASHI's come-only-with-cash Candidates (ASHI has no entrance requirements whatsoever) cutting their prices to get their inspections in. ASHI actually encourages this wrecking of our markets (dumping) by telling their Candidates that they have to do a certain number of inspections to achieve full membership. This downward pressure ASHI applies to the fees our profession charges on average is something CMI wants no hand in which is why I suggested a certain amount of invoices billed (upward pressure on fees), rather than number inspections performed (downward pressure).

Hate going off topic, but I must know... I know it sounds good (like the blind inspector thingy) but do you have any proof that ASHI's membership policy of requiring 250 inspections has a downward pressure on prices?

Most of the low-ballers in my area are either part-timers (Florida retirees) or not affiliated with any association whatsoever. Most ASHI candidates are too financially strapped to compete on price, but that is another story if you know what I mean.

In reality NACHI has provided the perfect vehicle for an inspector to never have to join ASHI as a Candidate... Simply join NACHI, get your 250 inspections completed then join ASHI as a full member, this is NOW the preferred way to join ASHI, ask anyone.

[Nick Gromicko]

Joe, as you know I track every inspector in the industry. www.everyinspector.com NACHI simply doesn't lose members to ASHI, however in 2005 alone ASHI lost 1,800+ members to NACHI. And according to ASHI's membership Director Scott Patterson, ASHI now has more Candidates than members... an association of come-only-with-cash Candidates.

Their full members have little to brag about either. A full member of ASHI is merely a come only with cash Candidate who

1. passed their Ethics Exam (whipteedo, unethical inspectors aren't going to give unethical answers anyway).

2. sent in 5 inspection reports to make sure they comply with SOP (whipteedoo again, all reporting forms and software comply with SOP these days).

3. did 250 inspections right or wrong (whipteedo again, anyone can do something wrong and unsupervised over and over).

4. passed the NHIE (whipteedo again, the NHIE has a 65%+ pass rate. Of those who pass they can still get 30% wrong as the passing cut off score is 70%.)

It is unconscionable that ASHI encourage its come-only-with-cash Candidates to cut prices and do a certain number of unqualified inspections for poor, unsuspecting consumers as the only way to achieve full membership. Not bashing, just stating the facts from their own site:

Here are ASHI's entrance requirements: http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/join/...plication1.htm

Here are NACHI's entrance requirements: http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm

Here are CMI's requirements: http://www.certifiedmasterinspector.org/cmi/apply.htm

Judge for yourself.

We should all work hard to put an end to what I call "Shazam!" associations... ones with no entrance requirements other than "send us money and Shazam!... you be an inspecta!" They harm consumers and drive down fees in our markets.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

Judge for yourself.

We should all work hard to put an end to what I call "Shazam!" associations... one's with no entrance requirements other than "send cash and Shazam!... you be an inspecta!"

We should work hard to promote our profession in positive ways and preserver together to help provide the best possible inspections to our clients; do this and everything else falls into place.

[Nick Gromicko]

Agreed.

[Russell Spriggs]

Ultimately, the consumer decides if the inspection was performed properly.

Hear, Hear!
An inspector that screws the pooch (sorry, old GI term) won't last long. Blaine has a good grip on this. I may not agree with all of his concepts (who agrees with anyone 100% ?) but I respect his reasoning.

This is a subjective, not objective, test evaluation.

[Russell Spriggs]

Originally Posted by hvalenzano

My sugustion for qualifications is

A home inspection school or corse ether a deploma or certificate
One hundred hours of continuing education,
Four or five years in business,
Four or five hundred inspections performed.

Law suites dont matter because people can sue for anything.

Hank, your spelling needs help but your reasoning is worthy!

[Russell Spriggs]

I've travelled this country, speaking to Agents, Inspectors, Mortgage Brokers, Title Co's, etc -
What everyone can relate to is when I say that I have sent my money in, and joined BassMasters.
I wish it made me a better fisherman, but it didn't.
By taking the NACHI exam, it did make me a better inspector . . .