New International Standards of Practice for Inspecting Commercial Property.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by gporter

remove every other one or every third. Stick your head in there and look around

Gary in a circumference...removing one out of a circle of 50 is plenty if you have good eyes, binoculars, and a camera.

Actually I can usually see fine for about 40 feet in any direction removing a tile, providing there is nothing hindering my view.

I can inspect above (say) a 40,000 sq ft drop panel ceiling in a hour if everything above is basically in normal condition.

The longest time it took I can remember was a building that had a chiller, there was isolation valves all over hell...that was a mess (leaks)...but other than that one its usually very simple.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Dale,
You go things differently then what we do in central Missouri. I use a large disclaimer after my commercial inspection report, so does other inspectors in my area. On my on home inspection contract I refer to NACHI SOPs, but it also states that I can exceed them. My commercial inspection contract will refer to the Commercial SOPs now. That way I have just a one page inspection contract. But it is also understandable how you do things. So I guess that is where the confusion lies. Have a nice night.

[Dale Duffy]

Example removing one tile every 40 feet.

[Joe Farsetta]

A word of caution when performing a commercial inspection: depending on the size and scope of the inspection, often the PROCESS is as important as the experience. It goes to liability, and as commercial inspections may involve anything from a full-blown study, to a mom-and-pop purchase of an existing small business, there are potentially MANY opportunities to make $$, as well as the reality of a lawsuit for failure to perform.

I teach that there are 3 layers of protection that every inspector should recognize and adhere to. One needs to be extremely careful when "exceeding" the standard, unless mutually defined as to what will be done, and what will NOT be done. This is paramount when DEVIATING from a standard in any way.

Nice photos, Dale, but what do your photos show? Did you actually INSPECT any of the items in the photo? Did your SOP state that this was required, and to what extent? Now that you've photographed the event, are you stating that there were no problems found?

Niow, dont get me wrong. I'n NOT picking on you for doing this. I'm just pointing out that exceeding a standard, for no other reason than you think it's a good idea, can open you up for liability.

Good SOPs protect the consumer AND the inspector... always.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jbraun

Dale,
You go things differently then what we do in central Missouri. I use a large disclaimer after my commercial inspection report, so does other inspectors in my area. On my on home inspection contract I refer to NACHI SOPs, but it also states that I can exceed them. My commercial inspection contract will refer to the Commercial SOPs now. That way I have just a one page inspection contract. But it is also understandable how you do things. So I guess that is where the confusion lies. Have a nice night.

There is no confusion James.....I have a one page agreement (word document), but I add what will be inspected and what won't be inspected, so it might be a 10 page agreement depending on what the client wants inspected.

The SOP means nothing except for a bare minimum inspection and how one goes about doing it, structure, major components and safety are my prime concerns, and always the client to.

I like Nick's document, everyone involved did a great job.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

A word of caution when performing a commercial inspection: depending on the size and scope of the inspection, often the PROCESS is as important as the experience. It goes to liability, and as commercial inspections may involve anything from a full-blown study, to a mom-and-pop purchase of an existing small business, there are potentially MANY opportunities to make $$, as well as the reality of a lawsuit for failure to perform.

I teach that there are 3 layers of protection that every inspector should recognize and adhere to. One needs to be extremely careful when "exceeding" the standard, unless mutually defined as to what will be done, and what will NOT be done. This is paramount when DEVIATING from a standard in any way.

Nice photos, Dale, but what do your photos show? Did you actually INSPECT any of the items in the photo? Did your SOP state that this was required, and to what extent? Now that you've photographed the event, are you stating that there were no problems found?

Niow, dont get me wrong. I'n NOT picking on you for doing this. I'm just pointing out that exceeding a standard, for no other reason than you think it's a good idea, can open you up for liability.

Good SOPs protect the consumer AND the inspector... always.

You posted before I finished....your answer is below.

[Joe Farsetta]

Your agreement, then, is also a Statement of Work, describing a Scope of Work which governs the inspection, its inclusions, and exclusions. Correct?

[Dale Duffy]

Joe, besides the sprinkler pipe going through the AC duct and the insulation falling from the roof nothing.................

[Joe Farsetta]

So, notiing this serious defect, Mr. Duffy, you naturally followed through and examined all similar piping and ductwork throughout the entire facility, no??

Harumph, harumph...

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Your agreement, then, is also a Statement of Work, describing a Scope of Work which governs the inspection, its inclusions, and exclusions. Correct?

Correctomundo Joe....!!!

And if you ever have a class in Phoenix, let me know ahead of time...I have done hundreds of large buildings, I can arrange to have the class in a commercial building we can wonder around in, and we can BOTH point out issues, concerns, what might be needed for upgrades, etc...


I have met some great people being in the commercial inspection business who would be more than happy to accommodate us.

[Joe Farsetta]

I teach the PROCESS and with it, the PITFALLS of flawed standards of practice. The idea is to know the process and the REQUIREMENTS, and to MEMORIALIZE what will be done as part of the inspection.

I teach self-assessment, and how to successfully manage the PROJECT, which is the commercial inspection itself. I teach to NOT inspect those portions you are NOT QUALIFIED to inspect, and to hone TEAM BUILDING skills, strategies, and pricing models when bringing an SME to the dance is what is required.

I teach about the REALITIES of the engagement, and applying the SOP as a model in negotiations with the client.

If anyone believes ANY commercial class will teach someone all the configurations, problems, nuances encountered between any 6 buildings, they are kidding themselves.

To me, PROCESS is key. It is key in delivering a quality product, ket in correctly managing client expectations, and key in keeping your butt out of court.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

I teach the PROCESS and with it, the PITFALLS of flawed standards of practice. The idea is to know the process and the REQUIREMENTS, and to MEMORIALIZE what will be done as part of the inspection.

I teach self-assessment, and how to successfully manage the PROJECT, which is the commercial inspection itself. I teach to NOT inspect those portions you are NOT QUALIFIED to inspect, and to hone TEAM BUILDING skills, strategies, and pricing models when bringing an SME to the dance is what is required.

I teach about the REALITIES of the engagement, and applying the SOP as a model in negotiations with the client.

If anyone believes ANY commercial class will teach someone all the configurations, problems, nuances encountered between any 6 buildings, they are kidding themselves.

To me, PROCESS is key. It is key in delivering a quality product, ket in correctly managing client expectations, and key in keeping your butt out of court.

Hmmm....You sound like a f-ing marriage counselor..................

I think I'll be skipping your class..........

[Dale Duffy]

Joe,

Name your class {Commercial Common Sense}...............

All kidding aside..I bet it's a good one..!

[Dale Duffy]

Hey Joe,

After you travel the country showing people what is involved in the entertaining engagement.

Are you going to have a class to show people how to inspect a building?



.............................

[Joe Farsetta]

Marriage counsellor? Nah.

Be careful. I can teach someone wet behind the ears to manage a commercial inspection, market it better, protect themselves, do it at a competetive rate, and likely produce a better and more complete document, based on a recognized international standard, than most "experienced" commercial inspectors can.

Maybe you're the exception... but then again, maybe you aint. Hey... what the hell do I know, anyway?

Everyone learns something in my class; even if it's recognizing pitfalls in the standard. You say that the standard is the minimum. It is.

BUT, its also a BASELINE.

This means that those items specified in the baseline requirements should automatically be included, ialong with all of those mandatory items of inclusion in the report.