NH meeting

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

As to further discussion on the specifics on the current New Hampshire situation I believe that to get a full and "Frank" discussion of the issues we would need to move this thread to a members only area.

Gerry,

I would normally agree with you except, in this case, the topic is one that affects all home inspectors and addresses NACHI's position on a matter that directly affects them/us and our futures in this industry.

NACHI's public position on legislation that affects the public should be able to be discussed in a public forum, IMO. Besides, this is the area in which our ED chose to initiate discussion on this topic and, up to this point, I have trusted his judgment.

Jim

[John Bowman]

??????

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jbowman

Jim,

Which draft of the legislation are you addressing. The one located on the NH site is way out of date.

John,

Hello. I am not addressing any particular piece of legislation. I am addressing your statement regarding your present position, that omits any reference to NACHI's formerly published position, that NACHI will not support any legislation that would put a home inspector out of business (among other issues).

You go as far as to say that "grandfathering", "apprenticeship" and other similar issues are no longer a concern of NACHI when these parts of proposed legislation often affect the ability of a home inspector to remain in business.

This is a significant shift in policy that was not present last year. I am wondering when and why these changes were made to NACHI's position.

Or is this just a matter of incomplete or misunderstood communication?

Jim

[Joe Farsetta]

I think this thing got away from us, especially with John B deleting his posts. That was not necessary.

John does a good job, and based on some e-mails I received on the issue coming from a large NH NACHI Chapter, I believe that (unbeknownst to John) our members were already deeply involved in defeating the former legislation and in forming the new legislation.

I also question exactly HOW John got dragged into this thing, as he doesnt normally go where he is not needed (or apparently wanted). So, in reviewing some issues that exist in NH, there appears to be a rift between a NH member and a larger chapter. That chapter sought my counsel, and I informed them that any NACHI member can certainly speak on their own behalf to anyone they wish, and on any matter. I also reinforced any NACHI member's ability to start another chapter, even with two people. This person is entitled to do as they please, but I am beginning to question how heavily John may have been lobbied for help, with this person apparently ignoring other NACHI members in the process, or perhaps omitting important pieces of information. Again, I do not have the full story, but something seems amiss to me at this point. Please correct me if I am wrong. I can be wrong with regard to this, and in fact MAY be wrong... Again, I may not have the full story. Please enlighten...

I also strongly believe it is a disservice to NACHI members in any state to get National's involvement in an issue, when affected members arent on the same page, or side of the issue. Did this happen?

With regard to NH, the former bill was dead. Did a NACHI member attempt to revive it? If so, then why. Is there an agenda we need to be aware of? If so, can and should we support that agenda? And, should these actions be communicated to the rank and file NACHI members of that state? I believe the answer is yes.

I received a telephone call last evening from the New England ASHI Chapter President. I believe he is an honest man, and one whom I respect. We needn't always agree on things, but I believe we have earned each other's respect through the years. He held out an olive branch with regard to NH legislative issues, and asked whom he should be speaking to. My advice to him was to speak to the NH NACHI Chapter Presidents. I have no dog in this hunt. He also acknowledged that larger chapters generally represent the wants of a greater number of inspectors, so he will keep this in mind when speaking to respective NACHI Chapter leaders or independents.

Finally, I told him that he may or may not receive a warm welcome from our NH membership, as the last (defeated) bill appeared to have been crafted by and favored ASHI. He also acknowledged this, but is really hoping for the best.

Again, I believe that John B's involvement can absolutely be beneficial to the task at hand. I truly believe that John may not have been given the full story, and may have had no idea where NACHI is, or has been, with regard to NACHI legislative activity and history in NH.

I ask all NH NACHI members to think about leveraging this man's involvement in your efforts, and capitalize on his position in this org in the most effective manner possible. He is a good person to have in your corner. Just coordinate those efforts, and have a strategy and common plan, including where, when , and what to bring forward, with the blessings of as many NH NACHI members as possible. Share this vision and strategy with him, and point him in the direction you want. He represents you. Give him something to push, that has your collective support.

If you believe you've got a handle on the issue, that's fine too. Just let him know. He's no ogre. That title is reserved for yours truly...

[James H. Bushart]

Joe,

I appreciate your response and share your enthusiastic endorsement of John Bowman and the benefit of his involvement.

I am still confused, however, as to the apparent inconsistency of the stated position(s) of NACHI National regarding what legislation it will and will not support.

This newest, "hooperized" version of 'anything that is not association biased is okay' is a major change in policy. I can not find anything on the message boards that reflects when, how and by whom this change came into play.

It would appear from this that, the next time these fellows in Florida attempt to legislate two-thirds of their competition out of business, they will be able to count on the much needed support of NACHI.

Am I missing something here?

Jim

[John Bowman]

Originally Posted by jbushart

John,

Hello. I am not addressing any particular piece of legislation. I am addressing your statement regarding your present position, that omits any reference to NACHI's formerly published position, that NACHI will not support any legislation that would put a home inspector out of business (among other issues).

You go as far as to say that "grandfathering", "apprenticeship" and other similar issues are no longer a concern of NACHI when these parts of proposed legislation often affect the ability of a home inspector to remain in business.

This is a significant shift in policy that was not present last year. I am wondering when and why these changes were made to NACHI's position.

Or is this just a matter of incomplete or misunderstood communication?

Jim

Jim,

Your last statement is correct.

[James H. Bushart]

John,

Thanks for the response. From it, am I correct to assume that the position of NACHI National, regarding its support for state licensing laws, remains as stated by its president on 8/19/05?

[Peter C. Russell]

To everyone on this post;
I seem to be one of the only NH members to respond so here goes. I was never informed of this latest meeting with our new lobbyist. I had no idea that this bill was going to be brought up again. I feel like I am caught in the middle of a power struggle for control over what happens in NH. I wish other members would start getting involved and voice your opinions. In my opinion there is no need to get a lobbyist, a state rep, and a second chapter involved in this whole process again. We defeated the bill!!!!!!!!!! leave it alone!!!!!!!!! If another state rep brings a new bill forward I believe we can have a positive impact on how it is written and control our own licencing.

I was unaware of a new chapter being started, I was never contacted by this new chapter and asked my opinion, I have on the other hand been completely informed by who I was to believe the NH chapter president throughout the entire process and continue to be informed. I also have been invited to all of the chapter meetings and Frank has been up front with his communication. He has held no meetings behind closed doors and his goal is the protection of our livelihood.

So, if any other members here in NH read this you better start paying attention and get involved, voice you opinion or live with the results.

[John Bowman]

Jim,

Sure, we frown upon it, however, sometimes it will be inevitable. Take NY for example..... Everyone thought it was fair and impartial and workable. Not forcing anyone out of business. NY prognosticators (sp) estimated licensing nearly 5,000 or better home inspectors. I believe they just recently went over the 1,000 mark and many part-time small town Home Inspectors were put right out of business. You know the people I'm talking about. The ones that are also the Mayor and local barber in addition to being the home inspector.

I imagine many felt that it was not worth the costs involved to get a license. i.e. schooling, insurance, licensing fees, etc. These inspectors were simply providing a service for their small communities and maybe if they were lucky 2 homes went up for sale once a year. They fell way short of any qualifications set forth by the state, (number of inspections), and were therfore forced to either close shop or pay exorbent fees for schooling. Fees that they probably would never recoup. Home Inspection laws are written for big cities, not the small towns and rural areas.

In this particular case licensing laws were not conducive in supporting our consuming public. In fact it has done just the opposite.

1. The consuming public in rural areas have now lost the services of a Home Inspection, unless they pay travel expenses of those inspectors from major areas.
2. A majority of these small towns have no code official or AHJ, etc. Some do not have any codes, period. Removing the Home Inspector from this area because of licensing laws has seriously put these consumers in harms way by removing the only consumer protection that was established.

In short. Licensing Laws are written to protect the cities and suburbs and totally defeat the purpose in small town america. The people that need our assistance the most have been put out to dry. (That is of course, unless they hire a big town inspector at an additional cost for travel).

Licensing is a big failure is small town, USA.

The above is all my opinion and not the opinion of NACHI National.

[John Bowman]

Originally Posted by prussell

To everyone on this post;
I seem to be one of the only NH members to respond so here goes. I was never informed of this latest meeting with our new lobbyist. I had no idea that this bill was going to be brought up again. I feel like I am caught in the middle of a power struggle for control over what happens in NH. I wish other members would start getting involved and voice your opinions. In my opinion there is no need to get a lobbyist, a state rep, and a second chapter involved in this whole process again. We defeated the bill!!!!!!!!!! leave it alone!!!!!!!!! If another state rep brings a new bill forward I believe we can have a positive impact on how it is written and control our own licencing.

I was unaware of a new chapter being started, I was never contacted by this new chapter and asked my opinion, I have on the other hand been completely informed by who I was to believe the NH chapter president throughout the entire process and continue to be informed. I also have been invited to all of the chapter meetings and Frank has been up front with his communication. He has held no meetings behind closed doors and his goal is the protection of our livelihood.

So, if any other members here in NH read this you better start paying attention and get involved, voice you opinion or live with the results.

Peter,

This was not an open meeting to all. The meeting was limited to 20 individuals. Each NH Chapter President (from both ASHI and NACHI) were notified via email and telephone to RSVP with two New Hampshire Home Inspectors who would represent their chapter. Your Chapter President was notified by Email of this requirement and telephone calls were extended to him. In addition your Chapter Vice President was contacted.

In addition to the Chapter representatives two individuals from the National Associations were invited by Representative Gale. I attended for NACHI National. Nick Gromicko and Gerry Beaumont were also invited to come along. Neither one could make it because of other commitments.

ASHI National was sent an email and I personally contacted there Headquarters (President, Executive Director, and Incoming President). They responded immediately and had representatives present.

But back to your statement. It was the duty of your Chapter President to assign two representatives of your chapter and send in an RSVP. He chose to take a different route which was no problem. He was welcomed to the meeting with no dispute. It was his duty (if he so chose) to notify you, not NACHI's. I'm sorry that you feel slighted or left out or behind. Fear not though I understand that many open meetings have been scheduled. Hopefully your chapter will notify you when they come about.

You and everyone else are correct. The bill was defeated. But guess what. I new one is being introduced. (Yeah...they can do that).

Now the point you made about a New chapter. Anyone can start a new chapter. I fail to see your point here. In fact before this chapter there were already two chapters in existence in New Hampshire. Both in the same town by the way. I am unaware of any State Chapter. Perhaps this is a title that you have bestowed upon yourselves. Anyways, the New Chapter was established to represent the Lakes and Mountains region.

Who is your new lobbyist? Please clarify.

It is my understanding via email that your Chapter President has undertaken the task of writing a bill. A monumental task and each of you should render your full support to his efforts. Time is of essence here. His draft will need to be submitted, refined, sent to the state lawyers and then presented. It is not uncommon for legislation that is being submitted in this manner to be forwarded to the original craftor of the legislation to review and incorporate into the existing one. Legislators are not known to step on each others toes or override someone who has either already presented a bill or have made it well known that they plan on resubmitting a new bill in place of the defeated bill.

Good Luck to all of you in NH.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jbowman

Jim,

Sure, we frown upon it, however, sometimes it will be inevitable.

John,

Without dragging in a bunch of names and turning this into another urinating olympics, I know you know the people I am referring to when I say that we have home inspectors and home inspector trainers in key states who are pushing a licensing agenda as a means to limit their competition and create a mandate for their seminars. While much of the rhetoric centers upon the "interests of the consumer", there are no consumers involving themselves in the process - or even making complaints.

At one time, our association did more than "frown upon" this type of activity. It lobbied against it.

I hope that you will reconsider your position and adopt Blaine's statement made a year ago as the position statement for all of NACHI National leadership, as it pertains to pending legislation.

[Joe Farsetta]

Spoke to John Bowman earlier today. It was a very pleasant conversation, and I believe we recognize that there are some problems and missed communications with regard to this entire affair. John claims that NACHI was invited by Rep Gale, that invitations to attend were sent to all chapter presidents, ASHI, etc, and that he attended as he was asked to by the rep, and no one else.

John went on to say that he believes that legislation is coming to NH, whether anyone wants it or not, and that Rep Gale is pushing the legislative effort.

John believes he made some great headway in this meetng, and promises to stay deeply involved with it. There is also some confusion relative to what was said and by whom, and John characterizes some speakers as being a bit combattive. John also informed me that there are 3 NH chapters.

Finally, there are questions relative to who is sponsoring the alternate bill that Frank Carrio has eluded to.

The in-fighting in NH needs to stop, and folks need to get on the same page. I do not believe, based on my conversations with the ASHI-NE chapter president that the Gale bill has ASHI support. Again, he has never lied to me, so I'll take it at face value.

I will ask for NACHI NH members to speak to these issues at this time. The key is in their involvement, and which direction, if any, they want NACHI National to take.

John and I both agreed on these points...

On a personal note, I fail to understand how 2 representatives from each chapter could have, in any way shape or form, represented the voices of the rank and file of NH NACHI members. You could have quite literally had two members from a two-person chapter, and two members from a 5 person chapter, have a louder voice than 2 reps from a 70 person chapter. Seems back-asswards to me. Despite what the Representative may have wanted, and for whatever reason, we are NACHI, and control our own destinies. If we were prime movers in the defeat of the first bill, we had better damned well bring forward the wants and concerns of the majority of our NH members at the next meeting. We do not have to go along with anything the Rep proposes. We just need to be on the same page with each other. We can and will influence whatever is proposed, and by whom. We are NACHI, and folks need to get used to THAT!

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Spoke to John Bowman earlier today. It was a very pleasant conversation, and I believe we recognize that there are some problems and missed communications with regard to this entire affair. John claims that NACHI was invited by Rep Gale, that invitations to attend were sent to all chapter presidents, ASHI, etc, and that he attended as he was asked to by the rep, and no one else.

John went on to say that he believes that legislation is coming to NH, whether anyone wants it or not, and that Rep Gale is pushing the legislative effort.

John believes he made some great headway in this meetng, and promises to stay deeply involved with it. There is also some confusion relative to what was said and by whom, and John characterizes some speakers as being a bit combattive. John also informed me that there are 3 NH chapters.

Finally, there are questions relative to who is sponsoring the alternate bill that Frank Carrio has eluded to.

The in-fighting in NH needs to stop, and folks need to get on the same page. I do not believe, based on my conversations with the ASHI-NE chapter president that the Gale bill has ASHI support. Again, he has never lied to me, so I'll take it at face value.

I will ask for NACHI NH members to speak to these issues at this time. The key is in their involvement, and which direction, if any, they want NACHI National to take.

John and I both agreed on these points...

On a personal note, I fail to understand how 2 representatives from each chapter could have, in any way shape or form, represented the voices of the rank and file of NH NACHI members. You could have quite literally had two members from a two-person chapter, and two members from a 5 person chapter, have a louder voice than 2 reps from a 70 person chapter. Seems back-asswards to me. Despite what the Representative may have wanted, and for whatever reason, we are NACHI, and control our own destinies. If we were prime movers in the defeat of the first bill, we had better damned well bring forward the wants and concerns of the majority of our NH members at the next meeting. We do not have to go along with anything the Rep proposes. We just need to be on the same page with each other. We can and will influence whatever is proposed, and by whom. We are NACHI, and folks need to get used to THAT!

To: Joe Farsetta Chairman, NACHI COE,
Walter Perry Executive Director of ASHI-NE, Jim Morrison President of ASHI-NH.

Gentlemen,
It has been brought to my attention that the subject and “outcome” of the ill advised so called “ASHI / NACHI” meeting that took place on August 4, 2006 has been posted on the NACHI Bulletin board.

For the record I did not post this information or start this “Thread.” That being said, I can not just sit by and see falsehoods and misinformation being posted without responding.

First, I would like to state for the record that I am the duly elected President of the State Chapter of NACHI. We have 79-members. Neither I, nor any one of our duly elected Officers or members initiated or approved of this meeting. We all opposed it.

Second, All of our duly elected officers, and our members worked diligently for months and months on end to defeat House Bill 642. I am more than happy to say that on March 22, 2006 all of our hard work paid off!
The Bill was soundly defeated! We were opposed to it then and we are opposed to it now! We have no interest in seeing it revived!

So the question is…..if the duly elected officers and the 79-members of the NACHI-NH State Chapter were and still are opposed to this bill, how did this “ASHI / NACHI meeting” come about?

According to NACHI “Rule & Regulations” anyone and everyone can start their own “Chapter.” One of our disgruntled members has started her own Chapter. {As is her right.} and now she has a “Chapter of One!

As far as anyone of our 79-members is aware of this person has not had any Chapter meetings, Elections, or done anything to legitimize her “Chapter.” She is her own self appointed President, chief cook, and bottle washer!

It is sad to say that the this person who has a “Chapter of One” has gone off half cocked and she has contacted the Real Estate Agent / State Rep. Harry Gale and representing herself as President of the NH Chapter of NACHI initiated the first meeting on June 23rd.

John Bowman is well aware of the existence of our State Chapter. He is well aware of the fact that I am the duly elected President.

Mr. Bowman has taken a well established and clearly recorded adversarial role in all matters pertaining to me.

I believe that in a personal affront to me, Carla Horn and Mr. Bowman knowing that our 79-members elected a President, Vice President, and Chapter Secretary, chose to circumvent our 79-members and our duly elected officers.

After this so-called “successful” meeting of three people {Carla Horn, John Bowman & Harry Gale} she and John Bowman announced that “ASHI & NACHI” were having a meeting on August 04, 2006.

At the August 04, 20006 meeting I had the pleasure to sit next to Mr. Walter Perry who is the Executive Director of ASHI-NE. I found him to be intelligent, articulate, and the conversations during the evening were cordial.

Mr. Perry and I were both surprised to find that we found out about this “ASHI / NACHI” meeting by reading the announcement on an E-Mail from one of our members!

Talk about how not to conduct matters in a Professional manner!

I explained to Mr. Perry the circumstances of the “Chapter of One” and that our 79-members found out about the first meeting and this meeting via the NACHI bulletin board and by forwarded E-mails from concerned ASHI and NACHI members.

I explained that both the first meeting and this meeting did not have the support of our duly elected Officers and our seventy nine {79} members.

NOTE: Mr. Perry assured me that ASHI-NE still opposed this bill and that they were not lending their support to Carla’s efforts to revive it.


SUMMARY:
On June 23, 2006 Carla Horn, and John Bowman “Speaking for New Hampshire” decided to circumvent the State Chapter, it’s duly elected officers and all 79-members.

They met with the Real Estate agent / State Rep. Harry Gale to discuss the revival of the strongly opposed and soundly defeated House Bill 642.


After this “successful” meeting they announced that ASHI & NACHI were going to meet for a further discussion.

The only problem is that they did not bother to ask the ASHI-NE Executive Director {Mr. Walter Perry} , or the President of ASHI-NE {Mr. Jim Morrison} of they wanted to participate in this ill advised meeting.


At this meeting Mr. Perry and I found that we were in agreement that ASHI-NE and our NACHI State Chapter with 79-members strong were and still are opposed to this soundly defeated and DEAD bill!


Carla Horn and John Bowman chose to ignore the voice of reason, ignore the duly elected officers of our State Chapter and ignore the 79-members of our State Chapter.


This whole matter has been a huge waste of time. In a sickening grab for power, and in a clear attempt to circumvent our State chapter it has made NACHI look fractured, disorganized, and amateurish.


NOTE:
I am enclosing one of many E-Mails expressing our membership’s disgust about this sordid situation.
This one is from our State Chapter Vice President, Marcus Hutnick, and it is addressed to the President of the “Chapter of One.”

So far all of the responses from our members have been unanimous. All feel betrayed, and are upset, disgusted, and angry at Carla for starting this fiasco.

This is just one of many. Most have many 4-letter words and cannot be posted on a National Bulletin board.

Signed, Frank M. Carrio Sr.
President, New Hampshire State Chapter
The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors {NACHI}



Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:04:00 +0000
From: hutnickmj1@comcast.net

Subject: FW: New Hampshire
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 20:04:00 +0000


Hello Carla,

Through many back door emails and cc's, I happen to get this email from an ASHI member.

I find it perplexed, disturbing, and most of all betraying.

The intent to work NH home inspection licensure in an organized, sensible, and intelligent fashion is a commendable goal by most every home inspector in N.H. whether they are ASHI, NACHI, other, or non-affiliated.

When I first read the email (below), I did not see any of the NACHI people who worked so feverishly with Rep. Gale and the State subcommittee at the beginning of this year. There were ASHI and NACHI members who attended all 3 of the subcommittee meetings and gave much of our time and effort to ensure that what was being proposed was sound and responsible. I did not see those parties listed as informed.
Furthermore, I did not see any NACHI officers (Frank Carrio, John Hastings, or myself) copied or informed.

There is something out there called 'due process'. There are people who have volunteered their time and effort to address these matters.
For someone to intentionally and purposefully ignore and divert this due process is the very exact reason we, as an organization, come across as unorganized and incoherent!

We had last spoke to Rep. Gale when the HB 642 was rejected and told him that all of those parties that have attended the subcommittee sessions would be more than happy to work with him when HB 642 became revived later on in 2006.


Furthermore, many people have called me and asked me to work with you because of your past involvement with such matters. You have been asked to join the NACHI NH Chapter several times, but have chosen not to.

I think the effort that has been displayed here is unprofessional and disruptive on your part.


Frankly, I am very surprised that you have taken such measures after so much as been done from a grass roots perspective.

Issues of grandfathering, testing, apprenticeship have all been discussed to a painstaking level.

We have ironed these topics out to where everyone agrees. We don't need NACHI or ASHI national people to tell us what needs to be in our licensing bill.

Also, what right does John Bowman have to come into NH, without talking to NACHI members, and begin having a discussion about OUR licensing bill.

We have all the best knowledge and skills and details right here in our own state. After all, it is the N.H. home inspectors that will be most impacted by the bill.

Nick and Gerry,

Do you agree?


--
Marcus Hutnick
SNH Home Inspections & Testing Services, LLC
603-571-0035
www.snhinspect.com

[James H. Bushart]

I have never met Frank and have only recently acquainted myself with his posts on this message board. Accordingly, I have yet to develop the apparent prejudices that some seem to have regarding his positions.l

If what he has stated is true, his issue transcends this obscure NH related thread and needs to be addressed on a wider scale.

I have spent many hours in one-on-one telephone conversations with John Bowman and I personally like him and professionally respect him. While some of the things that have happened in recent months that I am just now learning about has puzzled me, these actions (if true) by unelected people to reverse the efforts of an entire chapter of 79 home inspectors in a matter affecting their livelihood is about as wrong as it can get.

I hope that the facts of this matter can surface, quickly, and that the truth reflects that we have a strong NACHI National that supports its membership without regard to personalities and personal prejudices.

[Peter C. Russell]

I can't understand how a select few represent the hole organization in NH. I think it's time to get together and try to keep everyone on the same page. We need to be informed and organized.