No Main Disconnect

[Michael J. Merino]

This is a panel in a condo in Chicago. There is no main shut off, there are no other panels in the condo. What do you guys think? I am thinking that the main shutoff is in the electrical closet in the outside hallway, which I did not have access to because there was no staff authorized to allow me access.

Also, the circled area, seems to be the ground wire. Shouldn't that be connected to the neutral bus? Is this a way of bonding?

[David P. Valley]

Michael,

This is a typical (LSE) sub panel. The main SE breaker (shut-off) is located in a mechanical room at the main floor or basement of the building.

Simply note "No access to Main SE panel".

Where are the ground wires?

[Joseph T. Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by dvalley

Where are the ground wires?

Wired in metal conduit.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by jburkeson1

Wired in metal conduit.

Where do you see BX?

[Bruce M. Graham, III]

EMT serves as ground

[relliott]

Never assume Mike ,but I am going to stick out my neck and say your main panel is in the meter room.

I do not know the layout ,but remember to always follow the mast and try to get in to the locked room where it enters the buiding if not in a hall closet.

Small buildings it will be ground floor.

Mike the conduit serves as ground and the green wire is most likely for a spa tub.(guess)Reason is you have gas powered appliances.

How do I know? (only one double) (for HVAC)

Ground wire and the box should be connected but separate from the neutral bar.(look for a green screw or small bracket which bonds the box to the neutral bars which would be incorrect)

I see no problem from the picture.(If this is a new Condo please do call out lack of AFCI for the bedroom)





Will show you the flat head screwdriver trick (just kidding).

[Michael J. Merino]

As stated in my first post, there is an electrical room about 2 doors down from the unit. No one at the building could give me access. I did not see the bond screw, I thought that the circled item in the pic was a type of bonding. I read on the board that sometimes the screws that are used to install the bus bars act as the bond.

No spa tub or whirlpool.

This is an older building, I think it is the Millenium Building. It seems to me that the unit owner should have a way to shut off all electric to the unit.

I did tell the client about AFCI, and since he is going to have an electrician fix some receptacles, I suggested that he ask the electrician about installing AFCI.

[Rick Maday]

Originally Posted by mmerino

This is an older building, I think it is the Millenium Building. It seems to me that the unit owner should have a way to shut off all electric to the unit.

I think the idea is that, in an emergency, the power can be shut off to multiple units much quicker than going unit by unit, seeing if people are home.

And they do - they should have access to the electrical room.

Not much different than having the main breaker at the meter.

[Michael J. Merino]

I am an idiot! Don't everyone agree to quick.

#1 rule-NO bonding in a sub-panel!! No wonder I didn't see it.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by mmerino

I am an idiot! Don't everyone agree to quick.

#1 rule-NO bonding in a sub-panel!! No wonder I didn't see it.

Brush up a little on the definition of bonding. It causes more greif for inspectors than you may know.

There are components of the electrical system that are "bonded" at load-side equipment (i.e. sub panels), such as EGC's, metal conduit, etc. The rule is - no bonding of the neutrals to the panel.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

I challenge you
http://www.nachi.org/electrical-pane...-challenge.htm

[Patrick Bolliger]

Mike

The panel has one MAJOR defect.. NO legend!! I am surprised no one pointed that out.. No professional would leave that puppy unlabeled for branch circuit layout .

As for the "main" in this "distribution panel" your going to see the various configurations /types all over the place in Chicago. This is not uncommon but personally I would prefer to see one (main). Call it out... but be prepare to get ripped into. I have seen many and even had Union contractors slam me for it. It follows two different paths of concern. One occupant safety, the other electrical equipment protection. Guess which one this falls under? Your looking at client safety.. "them guys who installed it say you da wrong pal".. AFCI ain't required... We don't installed thems....

As for the closet down the hall. Very common also. Does the building have an engineer on site. Then they are the person responsible for access. Is the building a mega high rise or a three unit condo. Different configuration?

At the next chapter meeting I will have a challenge for you on Chicago electrical installations..

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by pbolliger

The panel has one MAJOR defect.. NO legend!! I am surprised no one pointed that out.. No professional would leave that puppy unlabeled for branch circuit layout .

The "legend" is above the preprinted label on the panel door.

[Patrick Bolliger]

OOPS

Focus paralysis!!

[Michael Larson]

Patrick, I know you would have seen if if you had been there.

Inspecting from pictures sucks.