No Main Disconnect

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Ben - do you use this same logic when making the videos that you sell to Home Inspectors?

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

I disagree.I shall inspect with total disregard to my client's concerns/needs? No.

Client: "I have a little trouble getting into the bathtub. Do you think I could install a hand hold bar on the tile wall here?"
Inspector: "Absurd. Why are you asking me? You need to consult a medical doctor! I'm an inspector - not a doctor! Now... stop interrupting me while I inspect only those things that are specifically listed in the SOP. You're concerns about safety are of no concern to me, unless they are written in the SOP."

hee hee.

You're beating a dead horse Ben while twisting what I say and intend. Please knock that crap off.

Of course I will respond to specific client requests but that doesn't mean they belong in the report.

If you insist on putting words in my mouth here are some from yours:

I'm Ben Gromicko and I'm the best damn inspector ever. Just ask me.

Code? Those are bare minimums and just don't do the job and were probably written by a bunch on industry shills anyway.

But don't worry I will use my "expertise" in rehabilitaion and geriatric care to make sure I call out all manner of issues that I think you should spend money on to enhance your safety. I know that some of these are prohitively expensive but hey, its not my money.

Afterall, I'm only here to "help" you.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jpope

Ben - do you use this same logic when making the videos that you sell to Home Inspectors?

I hope not but I would not be surprised.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

I've performed many home inspections at condos and townhouses and apartments, where the meters and main disconnects were outside, clumped together around the corner on the side of the building. Inside the panel had no main disconnect, and more than 6 hand movements to shut them all off. To my client, I described what would need to be done to turn off all of the electricity in an emergency. Usually my client would ask, "Why is the main breaker way over there outside and around the corner? Can't I just put one right here next to the panel?"

My clients weren't dumb. I was not preying on their fears or concerns about safety; I have no motive. My point is that inspectors should not totally disregard the expressed concerns and needs of their client - particularly when it comes to safety concerns/needs (whether actual or perceived).

It's been my experience that existing houses that have major problems were once built to code.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by rmaday

You never got a baseball cleat caught on the shag carpet as a kid then, huh.

Ben always recommends a sign at the front door to warn cleat wearers to remove them before waling into the house for their personal safety.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Define the safety concern over the Main Disconnect Switch. I can see falling in the tub, down stairs and carbon monoxides and most of all AFCI's....but those are in many cases a minimum code mandate....I dont see the exception as posted increasing a safety concern unless YOU impose you WILL on the client and bring it up as I am sure they wont so while the other items they would bring up as it directly relates to physical safety......an alarmist will bring up things that provide no basis but makes them feel better....two different beasts.

Personally.....90% or higher homes that have a "sub-panel" within the same dwelling do not have a main breaker....never a problem. Also if that concerned you my friend.....I would get your own panel checked first....lol.....( inside joke )

Paul,

You're wasting your time.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

I've performed many home inspections at condos and townhouses and apartments, where the meters and main disconnects were outside, clumped together around the corner on the side of the building. Inside the panel had no main disconnect, and more than 6 hand movements to shut them all off. To my client, I described what would need to be done to turn off all of the electricity in an emergency. Usually my client would ask, "Why is the main breaker way over there outside and around the corner? Can't I just put one right here next to the panel?"

My clients weren't dumb. I was not preying on their fears or concerns about safety; I have no motive. My point is that inspectors should not totally disregard the expressed concerns and needs of their client - particularly when it comes to safety concerns/needs (whether actual or perceived).

It's been my experience that existing houses that have major problems were once built to code.

Expressed concerns?

You lead him down the garden path Ben.

Did you demonstrated by using a stop watch and timing how long it would take?

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dvalley

Paul,

You're wasting your time.

I am too but I just finished a report and I'm feeling frisky.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

To my client, I described what would need to be done to turn off all of the electricity in an emergency.

What kind of emergency would your client be better suited to remain in the house and turn off the breaker rather than simply leave the premisis?


Usually my client would ask, "Why is the main breaker way over there outside and around the corner?

And what was your answer?

Can't I just put one right here next to the panel?"

My clients weren't dumb. I was not preying on their fears or concerns about safety; I have no motive. My point is that inspectors should not totally disregard the expressed concerns and needs of their client - particularly when it comes to safety concerns/needs (whether actual or perceived).

So if you were the alarm tech, you would have installed the sensors on my mothers upper windows?

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by dvalley

Paul,

You're wasting your time.

Not necessarily.

While I doubt Ben will change his mind, there may be some reading this that can benefit from the discussion.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

I'm Ben Gromicko and I'm the best damn inspector ever. Just ask me.

Code? Those are bare minimums and just don't do the job and were probably written by a bunch on industry shills anyway.

Oh, I was one of the worst inspectors out there. I was terrible for many years. Did not know a thing. I still am not as good as I want to be, that's why I work so hard trying to learn and understand and help. I'd say Pope is the best knowlegable inspector out there (from what I hear). Decker is excellent, seen him in action, you'll never want him to leave. Krumm is very good and talking and walking and doing an thorough job. Me.... I'm low on the list.

On the contrary, I have a ton of respect for those who write codes. Canadian building codes are fantastically written. I read them often. Alberta Building Codes Vol 1 and 2. Written very concisely. Easy to understand.

But codes change and improve. Why do they change and improve? Because at a certain point in time, a group of well-respected individuals said that they were inadequate in some way and not safe enough.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

I've performed many home inspections at condos and townhouses and apartments, where the meters and main disconnects were outside, clumped together around the corner on the side of the building. Inside the panel had no main disconnect, and more than 6 hand movements to shut them all off. To my client, I described what would need to be done to turn off all of the electricity in an emergency. Usually my client would ask, "Why is the main breaker way over there outside and around the corner? Can't I just put one right here next to the panel?"

My clients weren't dumb. I was not preying on their fears or concerns about safety; I have no motive. My point is that inspectors should not totally disregard the expressed concerns and needs of their client - particularly when it comes to safety concerns/needs (whether actual or perceived).

It's been my experience that existing houses that have major problems were once built to code.

But as MANY do....you have to compare "Apples to Apples and Oranges to Oranges" without a blanket statement. We have to evolve with each inspection or we are destine to die by them. In the case of the original post, I would demands to have access to the area where the service disconnect is located to complete my report.....but THAT situation is not the same as you paint in the quote above....two different senerios and a good inspector has to learn to roll with each one and not be hog tied into a blanket statement. This is why knowing the code forms a basis for understand beyond our personal feelings. Again, many older people do not even have the strength to turn off a main breaker so that rules older folks out plus the protection is for Overcurrent protection which is overload, short circuit and ground fault protection to kinda round it out and a breaker ahead of it serves the intent.......lets look at it another way...

I have a service disconnect in my garage....and thats all it is a main breaker and it feeds a "remote" panel in the dwelling...no main breaker as is probably the standard all around the country. Is that a concern? I hope not because the idea of turning off the main breaker is not a likely event in most cases as electrocution is not the concern right....you are not that fast my friend....lol.....we rely on branch circuits and GFCI's and so on...

We simply can't group the issues.........but in your example in the post....older systems that do pose a concern are called out with out a doubt but we can't blanket statement the procedure.

Gotta run...good debate.....meeting the wife for lunch..later fella !

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by rmaday

Not necessarily.

While I doubt Ben will change his mind, there may be some reading this that can benefit from the discussion.

Such as yourself.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

Oh, I was one of the worst inspectors out there. I was terrible for many years.

Sorry to hear that.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

My point is that inspectors should not totally disregard the expressed concerns and needs of their client - particularly when it comes to safety concerns/needs (whether actual or perceived).

Client: Mr. Spector, I'm concerned that that skylight in my daughters room is not safe. I am concerned with debris falling from airplanes, sattelites and space, craching through there.

Mr. Spector: I undertsand your concern. I will put it in the report that the skylight is a safety hazard and should be removed.