Please join me in welcoming former member Jim Bushart back as a member of InterNACHI.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Huh?

Spoken like a true Socialist.

What does the government have to do with "free" markets ?

The government can ensure or limit a true free market.

Advocates for home inspection licensing are a lot like the contradictory Pro-Life advocates who oppose abortion...and support the death penalty.

They are private business owners because they want to enjoy the freedom of free enterprise...free competition...freedom to succeed or die by their own merit...and they want the State to control entry and establish boundaries for their profession.

They are professionals who are skilled at their trade and work to develop a relationship of trust with the public....yet they want the State to enact laws to protect the consumers from "the other guy".

The licensing "coalitions" are groups of home inspectors with various agendas: those big city inspectors pushing for mandatory E&O to freeze out the part-timer and rural inspector, those wanting to prepare to retire who push for mentoring requirements, those who simply want to control others pushing for (with the hope of being seated on) autonomous licensing boards, and those from associations who sell tests, sell education classes or other services that the law will be written to mandate.

There is nothing "free" about that enterprise.

[George A. H. Luck]

"Advocates for home inspection licensing are a lot like the contradictory Pro-Life advocates who oppose abortion...and support the death penalty.

They are private business owners because they want to enjoy the freedom of free enterprise...free competition...freedom to succeed or die by their own merit...and they want the State to control entry and establish boundaries for their profession.

They are professionals who are skilled at their trade and work to develop a relationship of trust with the public....yet they want the State to enact laws to protect the consumers from "the other guy".

The licensing "coalitions" are groups of home inspectors with various agendas: those big city inspectors pushing for mandatory E&O to freeze out the part-timer and rural inspector, those wanting to prepare to retire who push for mentoring requirements, those who simply want to control others pushing for (with the hope of being seated on) autonomous licensing boards, and those from associations who sell tests, sell education classes or other services that the law will be written to mandate.

There is nothing "free" about that enterprise."

Thank you James for describing the situation in Canada to a "T".

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

James has a way with words George, I agree with him as well!

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Advocates for home inspection licensing are a lot like the contradictory Pro-Life advocates who oppose abortion...and support the death penalty.

My position on those two issues is not contradictory despite your claim. Both support for the death penalty and opposition to abortion honor and protect life.

I know you have a lot of trouble separation those two very distinctly different issues.

The rest of your post I agree with.

Let's not muddy the waters with straw men.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

[quote=mlarson;486524]My position on those two issues is not contradictory despite your claim. Both support for the death penalty and opposition to abortion honor and protect life.
[quote]

Huh???
Life in prison without possibility of parole would be protecting life.

[Michael Larson]

[quote=jbraun;486528][quote=mlarson;486524]My position on those two issues is not contradictory despite your claim. Both support for the death penalty and opposition to abortion honor and protect life.

Huh???
Life in prison without possibility of parole would be protecting life.

Yes it would if that is what happened.

I just have no trouble with executing murderers in both as a deterrent and as a matter of justice.

Sorry for the thread drift but i didn't start it and I will not continue it.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Advocates for home inspection licensing are a lot like the contradictory Pro-Life advocates who oppose abortion...and support the death penalty.

They are private business owners because they want to enjoy the freedom of free enterprise...free competition...freedom to succeed or die by their own merit...and they want the State to control entry and establish boundaries for their profession.

They are professionals who are skilled at their trade and work to develop a relationship of trust with the public....yet they want the State to enact laws to protect the consumers from "the other guy".

The licensing "coalitions" are groups of home inspectors with various agendas: those big city inspectors pushing for mandatory E&O to freeze out the part-timer and rural inspector, those wanting to prepare to retire who push for mentoring requirements, those who simply want to control others pushing for (with the hope of being seated on) autonomous licensing boards, and those from associations who sell tests, sell education classes or other services that the law will be written to mandate.

There is nothing "free" about that enterprise.

Boy, am I not only glad that you are back, but back on track too.

[kpierce]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Advocates for home inspection licensing are a lot like the contradictory Pro-Life advocates who oppose abortion...and support the death penalty.

They are private business owners because they want to enjoy the freedom of free enterprise...free competition...freedom to succeed or die by their own merit...and they want the State to control entry and establish boundaries for their profession.

They are professionals who are skilled at their trade and work to develop a relationship of trust with the public....yet they want the State to enact laws to protect the consumers from "the other guy".

The licensing "coalitions" are groups of home inspectors with various agendas: those big city inspectors pushing for mandatory E&O to freeze out the part-timer and rural inspector, those wanting to prepare to retire who push for mentoring requirements, those who simply want to control others pushing for (with the hope of being seated on) autonomous licensing boards, and those from associations who sell tests, sell education classes or other services that the law will be written to mandate.

There is nothing "free" about that enterprise.

Bravo James! Very well written and explained. I agree.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Huh?

Spoken like a true Socialist.

What does the government have to do with "free" markets ?

The government can ensure or limit a true free market.

The so called Free Market is a myth, it no longer exists. Where exactly does this utopian free market live?

We live in a mixed economy world.

Carry on.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jburkeson1

I realize that there are some slow learners in our midst but what appears to be inconsistency regarding the fundamentals of home inspector driven licensing legislation is simply the inability of some to be able to grasp the full dynamic of the effects on both the seasoned experienced home inspector, verses the inexperienced home inspector, let me explain further.

Sorry I appeared to be flippant. That was not my intent.

Getting back to my previous remark where I said "licensing is driven by those who are unwilling or unable to compete on a level playing field, and produces similar results... protection of the inferior." This statement refers to seasoned experienced home inspectors who (a) has no desire to keep up with the latest changes and advancements within our profession and uses licensing as a crutch to set a high bar (an unleveled playing field) to secure their market from their less experienced competition.

This, at east in our state, was the intent of members of a certain association. They had their SOP written, directly, into the state law and offered the NHIE as the test for the state to use. The state, then, handed the exam over to an independent testing firm (AMP) who converted it into a psychmetric test, not just a fact test.

The state then made the "seasoned" (> 250 inspections) inspectors, at least, take the test, but not have to do the coursework.

The result? Only 41% of the "seasoned" inspectors from that association passed the test. Most who did not pass were so p*ssed off that they refused to take the necessary classroom work that they needed to be able to take the test again.

So, licensing did ferret out the "seasoned" but inferior inspectors.

By (b) actually setting the entry level bar higher than the current educational/experience level of the established experienced home inspector.

And, in our case, that too ferreted out the inferior inspectors.

This relates to the fact that there are some new home inspectors whose education and training actually exceed that of established home inspector whose education is obsolete, thus protecting the seasoned but inferior home inspector from the newly high trained home inspector.

Didn't happen that way here.

That contrasts with the other side of the dynamic in which a new home inspector seek to use licensing to instantly raise his status to the level of the seasoned well established successful home inspector, who like yourself has applied himself to all of the current methodologies and practices and has vast pool of experience upon which to draw.

Seems like a compliment. I think I am gonna cry . If so, thanks, Joe.

Licensing is almost always is inferior to free market principals in securing a playing field which rewards those who strive to produce a better product through a combination of verifiable experience and certified education. It is easy to get confused if you are only seeing one side of the problems licensing causes in regards to our marketplace.

As has happened in Illinois, with the latest license renewal (we have to renew our licenses on Nov, 30 or even numbered years) only 38% of the inspectors renewed.

This business is about more that just knowing a J bar from flashing tins. It is also, much more importantly, about how to write a good (and complient) report, how to run a business (incorportation, accounting, managing cash flow, learning how to do payroll, etc) and how to increase your market.

Growing your market is more than just getting more Realtors to refer you. It is about getting yourself out there, with a good reputation and a superior service AND finding new markets (Pre-listing inspections, water intrusion inspections, energy audits, contractor inspections (helping contractors to find out what is wrong and how to best fix the problem), maintenance inspections, etc).

Tough economic times lead HIs to one of two things:

• Griping, complaining, and blaming everyone else for your business decline.
• Working all that much harder, networking, partnering and improving your level of service.

Make yourself stand out from the crowd. Others will lose business and you will gain market share.

I see licensing like I see local codes. It is a bare minimum standard of qualification.

BTW: Last week I finished my 750th inspection (home inspection. I have also done many other types).

Not bad for going into my fifth year.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Advocates for home inspection licensing are a lot like the contradictory Pro-Life advocates who oppose abortion...and support the death penalty.

Not kiling innocent babies is moral and laudable. Protect the innocent.

Executing (with due process of law and safeguards) of murders (those who kill the innocent) is also moral and laudable, and just and fair.

False comparision, made by those who have no authorotative and consistant moral compass.

They are private business owners because they want to enjoy the freedom of free enterprise...free competition...freedom to succeed or die by their own merit...and they want the State to control entry and establish boundaries for their profession.

Merely a "bare minimum standard" of proven compitancy. Kinda like local codes.

They are professionals who are skilled at their trade and work to develop a relationship of trust with the public....yet they want the State to enact laws to protect the consumers from "the other guy".

The licensing "coalitions" are groups of home inspectors with various agendas: those big city inspectors pushing for mandatory E&O to freeze out the part-timer and rural inspector, those wanting to prepare to retire who push for mentoring requirements, those who simply want to control others pushing for (with the hope of being seated on) autonomous licensing boards, and those from associations who sell tests, sell education classes or other services that the law will be written to mandate.

Licensing does not have to impose these aditional requirements. Illinois has no manditory insurance (G/L or E&O), no mentoring or apprentiship requirements (although, some tried to push it, last year, but they were shot down by the IHIA, which includes all associations), the license board has inspectors from all associations and all the members are well respected by all the HIs.

And the older, retiring inspectors tried to "retire" by doing CE and such, but the Chicagoland chapter has messed that up by providing better, more challanging CE at a lower price. Free Market at work. Do it better and be less expensive.

There is nothing "free" about that enterprise.

Jim, I understand how it is in Kansas and how it could be in Missora, but these other, additional requirements don't have to accompany licensing. If you had the same kind of licensing as we do, in Illinois, couldn't you live with that?

[Brian E. Kelly]

Jim, shouldn't you have some mention of INACHI on your web page?

It would not look good if you had to report yourself to yourself.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

The so called Free Market is a myth, it no longer exists. Where exactly does this utopian free market live?

We live in a mixed economy world.

Carry on.

I ascribe to a set of ideals and principles.

It's shame only a few seem to anymore.

They rest cry it doesn't exist so why care.

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by jbushart

home inspectors with various agendas:

Then you have those who don't want laws that would....

- make them responsible for their inspections.
- mandate training and education above their current level.
- impose fines for doing irresponsible walk by inspection.
- stop undocumented and standardless inspection.
- enforce the SoP.
- punish unethical behavior.
- provide an easy means for consumers to prosecute negligence.
- test and qualify inspectors before they can practice.
- little billy hates to grow up and prove his qualifications and follow
a SoP, be held to a higher standard and document what he does.

All kinds of agendas, indeed... We can see the truth.

Weak laws produce weak results. Stronger and better laws
can produce good results.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

It would not look good if you had to report yourself to yourself.

I did that once, it ain't as bad as you'd think.