Scumbag NAHI hits new low at ASTM meeting yesterday.

[Paul Sabados]

Dan,
Now I see why you slant toward ASHI and against NACHI. This is not a disparagement, just an observation.

Not even close. They have been railing against him for years now. Trying to close down the Pro-As#i chapter (aka THE REBELS) and discrediting anything that is brought up from the MAREI and KARCI groups. He's on the most wanted list at the Great Pains chapter here in KC. I think they have a supersized picture of him and they start every meeting by throwing darts at it

Paul

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by psabados

Not even close. They have been railing against him for years now. Trying to close down the Pro-As#i chapter
That is good to know!
(aka THE REBELS) and discrediting anything that is brought up from the MAREI and KARCI groups. He's on the most wanted list at the Great Pains Huh??chapter here in KC. I think they have a supersized picture of him and they start every meeting by throwing darts at it ROTFLMAO!
Paul

Sorry, I must have gotten him and some other "Dan" confused.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Frank -

When you say I slant toward ASHI ???????????

Thats a funny remark. Many of the crowd over at ASHI accuse of slanting too much toward NACHI. Private email Paul S, or John B, or Blaine W. and ask them the question.

Like I said, "This is not a disparagement, just an observation".
My apologies.

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Nick was there; I was there; and I saw Keith Swift there. I haven't seen anybody else post that was. If I've missed any of you - please stand up.

standing up (reluctanctly)

It was a circus. Perhaps the greatest spectacle in that town since the tiger chewed-up Roy Horn.

What Dan says is definitely accurate. Some of what has been posted here is not.

I was sitting next to a former ASHI and CREIA president (and newly announced NACHI member) and he voted for it. Next to him was a TAREI vice president and ASHI member and he voted for it.

At least two other NACHI members I know of there voted for it. I am sure there were others. Some of you need to understand that many of us hold memberships in more than one organization.

Nick was very plain-spoken and complimented ASHI for their ethics. CoE is the real distinction between NAHI and the rest. Nobody reads SoP's until they get sued or sucked into a regulatory position (Both pitiful fates).

The only person who uttered the word "scumbag" was the NAHI legislative coordinator.

No ice picks were visible from where I was sitting - They may have been confiscated at the airport.

There is justifiable concern that builders or realtors could interfere, but the ASTM committee process is not really as accessible as has been described. They control what happens by careful appointment and administration of the Executive Committees. The agendas are very closely managed that way.

Keith, I ordered a couple of copies of the book you referred to ("The Death of Common Sense"). Used, it's out of print. Sounds like an excellent read. Thanks for the suggestion.

Sorry I missed speaking with you, Dan. The room was FULL of interesting people and I'm not very extroverted.

Russell in Texas

[Paul Sabados]

Great Plains is also known as Great Pains They're great at recruiting new inspectors from that school located in Leavenworth, and other parts of the northern plains area, back when the branding campaign was in full force.

Oh well, i should be watching for hidden camera's, Im probably next

Paul

[Keith Swift, PhD.]

Gerry Beaumont called me last night, because he’d read my post about ASTM and was surprised that I didn’t vote for it, and we chatted for a while. There is no doubt that there is usually an ethical and logical response to both sides of any dispute, and reason usually predominates. And, the truth is, I’m still eager to hear both sides of any ASTM argument. As I pointed out to Gerry, the ASTM proposal is indicative of how far we’ve come as an industry. It was inevitable, as inevitable as the argument of whether we are “generalists” or “specialists. He agreed, and knowing my interest in legal issues, continued to reason that an international and universally accepted standard would certainly settle most legal disputes, but that would mean almost nothing to me, because I’m interested in stopping the frivolous litigation that is threatening inspectors nationwide and making a mockery of justice. At the risk of being accused of hyping the sales of my book, that is the one consistent threat to inspectors. As I’ve repeatedly argued, once you’ve been named in a lawsuit you’ve lost, even when you win, and that’s a fact. If someone could convince me that a “new” ASTM standard would bring about tort reform, and give us a judicial system that we could be really proud of, I’m hopping on their band wagon, or grabbing onto their coat tails, if you’ll forgive my stale metaphors. And until that happens, I’m staying on the NACHI side of the fence, wrapped up nice and warm in their standards. But there are other issues that bother me.

To be accepted, a universal standard will have to involve a host of other professionals, besides inspectors, who are involved in residential real estate transactions, all of whom have a vested interest in controlling inspectors: attorneys, brokers, builders, agents, engineers, and bankers, etc, but it’s the thought of a real estate agent being involved in my business that bothers me the most. As it stands right now, I feel very comfortable identifying myself as a NACHI inspector, and performing an inspection to standards that were written by the best minds in the NACHI organization, and which are still evolving and will continue to do so. Most inspectors that I’ve met are individuals. In fact, that’s what distinguishes them from other people. They don’t work for others; they work for themselves. And they certainly march to their own drumbeat. Anyway, this is the gist of my conversation with Gerry Beaumont, an inspector that I always listen carefully to, even though he’s a silly Brit.

[Nick Gromicko]

I did enjoy Dan Bower's presentation where he made it very clear that the SOP's of NACHI, ASHI and NAHI were quite similar but that it was NAHI's COE (or "lack of ethics" as I would describe it) that is the big difference in the 3 associations.

ASTM rep answered a question which made it clear that this SOP would include a COE or what he called "a business practice section."

[John McKenna]

What has me concerned is the accepted notion that ASTM
is above reproach and can be trusted...

How did they get invited to a NAHI national convention to
have a meeting about a new national SoP? It is hard for me
to believe that ASTM and NAHI and OTHERS are not
working behind the senes for a much bigger agenda that
has not been made known.

This will forever make me suspecious of trusting ASTM
as a non-partial and purely scientific organization.

When this was made known and objections were voiced
to the ASTM-NAHI tag team meeting... what did they
say???

Ahhh... whoops... we'll try to do better and
try not to look so partial and sneaky next time.



I know why TAREI was there... they have been trying to
get control of the 'Inspection Committe' from the
Texas Real Esate Commission for years. They might see this
as a means to that end.

[rstrahan]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

I know why TAREI was there... they have been trying to
get control of the 'Inspection Committe' from the
Texas Real Esate Commission for years. They might see this
as a means to that end.

This is topic drift, but I seriously doubt that. If they were in earnest about regulatory reform they would have worked harder on Sunset last year, instead of fighting Cahill and me on a sane SoP. That definitely impeded any effort for autonomy. They have their own problems with finances, declining membership and the recent overthrow of a president-elect.

TOPIC SAVE:

You're right about the shadowy origins of the ASTM project. They positively refused to identify the "signficant stakeholders" involved in the first planning meeting.

Russell

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dbowers

Nick was there; I was there; and I saw Keith Swift there. I haven't seen anybody else post that was. If I've missed any of you - please stand up.

Nick was right. The ASHI BOD & Officers AND Noel Zak from EBPHI / NHIE were MOSTLY seated front 2 rows to the moderators right side. Please remember I've been in ASHI over 22 years. I know a lot of them that you guys wouldn't. I've served 3 times on their National BOD; been Chapter President of 2 different Chapters; and belonged to 4 different ASHI Chapters as we moved around the country. I also train other inspectors.

The heirarchy voted against. Quite a few rank & file voted the other way at the end, including 1 past Officer. Nothing else to say at this time.

What I found amazing was so many of my old cronies at ASHI talking FOUL - when thats exactly how we used to play the game in getting licensing set up somewhere OR in getting the NHIE in play in different states.

Dan,

At inspectionnews, Scott Patterson reported that you voted in favor of this proposed set of standards. Is this true?

[Paul Sabados]

Dan,

At inspectionnews, Scott Patterson reported that you voted in favor of this proposed set of standards. Is this true?

What do you think? And when have you ever taken beam me up Scotty seriously?

[John McKenna]

Originally Posted by rstrahan

This is topic drift, but I seriously doubt that. If they were in earnest about regulatory reform they would have worked harder on Sunset last year, instead of fighting Cahill and me on a sane SoP. That definitely impeded any effort for autonomy. They have their own problems with finances, declining membership and the recent overthrow of a president-elect.
Russell

TAREI has stated many time that they want to take control out
of the hands of the Realtors at TREC. I don't blame them.
If the new ASTM SoP does not lead to more empowerment for
them, then what do they want from it? I am open to listen.

The more we can understand the motives behind this
SoP thingy, the more we can see what is really going on... IMHO.

I will be the last one to claim I know everything that is really motivating
this thing... but it's not charity. The NAHI connection shows
a bias from its origin.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by psabados

What do you think? And when have you ever taken beam me up Scotty seriously?

I have never taken Scott seriously, as few really do - but - I would recognize Dan's right to vote on the issue as he saw fit. If he felt that there was some merit to the idea of a set of ASTM standards and voted for it, I would ask him to share his thoughts as to "why".