Signs of the Times...

[John McKenna]

Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time [1] has been a record breaking best seller. A note in his later collection, Black Holes and Baby Universes [2] reveals that A Brief History remained on the bestseller list of The New York Times for fifty-three weeks, that as of February 1993 it had been on The Sunday Times best seller list for 205 weeks, and that translations into 33 languages other than English had already been published (p. 29). Also in that later collection, Hawking remarks parenthetically: "In the proof stage I nearly cut the last sentence in the book... Had I done so, the sales might have been halved."[3] To appreciate that sentence it is necessary to read the whole paragraph with which the earlier book concludes:

However, if we discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable by everyone, not just by a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God. (p.193)

Also note:
Albert Einstein's famous comment, "God does not play dice with the universe."

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

There is a special forum on the board that is for religious or political discussions or other items that are well known to cause heated debate. That is the "Not for Everyone" forum. Many do not care for the religious or political speak.

Lets keep the "hot topics", and we all know what they are, on the not for everyone forum.

[James H. Bushart]

I think I have discovered a market within the membership for whom I can develop products and also become a NACHI vendor.

For my first venture, I will develop and sell a tape measure that is marked in cubits.

Any takers?

[Joseph T. Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by jmckenna1

Albert Einstein's famous comment, "God does not play dice with the universe."

Einstein did once comment that "God does not play dice [with the universe]." This quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the Christian God. Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein's refusal to accept the uncertainties indicated by quantum theory. Furthermore, Einstein's religious background was Jewish rather than Christian.

A better quotation showing what Einstein thought is the following: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

Einstein was unable to accept Quantum Theory because of his belief in an objective, orderly reality: a reality which would not be subject to random events and which would not be dependent upon the observer. He believed that Quantum Mechanics was incomplete, and that a better theory would have no need for statistical interpretations. So far no better theory has been found and evidence suggests that it never will be.

A longer quote from Einstein appears in Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A Symposium, published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy, and Religion in Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York, 1941. In it he says:

The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.

But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself. This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably more worthy task ...

Einstein has also said:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

The latter quote is from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press. Also from the same book:

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.

Of course, the fact that Einstein chose not to believe in Christianity does not in itself imply that Christianity is false.

[John McKenna]

Joe,

I like the view of an "orderly arrangement God" without
the "personal God" getting involved. This is a level of truth
and most dwell there. At least God is given credit.

Jesus came to make it personal to those who want it.
If they do not, thats OK. The orderly Creator of all things
does not get His feelings hurt. He likes to hide himself
in the cloak of His divine order and does not force anyone
to come closer, except by their desire.

It is God who chooses to reveal Himself just as the teacher
who selects a worthy student for advanced studies. The
students desire to learn compels the teachers heart to
respond. The teacher gives everyone their desire.

Your desire becomes your habitation in this life and the one
to come. Simple.

[Joseph T. Burkeson, CMI]

John,

Believe whatever you will I'm not interested, just wanted to straighten you out on Einstein his idea of god is order proved through scientific testing. Appears he like Sagan won't be in your heaven either, no death bed conversion. Narrow is the way, Cheers

[John McKenna]

Thanks Joe,

We are all on our way to the NATURE we create within us.
That NATURE is our HEAVEN or HELL. This is our final
destiny.

Yes you are right, "narrow is the way".

Cheers and thanks for keeping a good spirit.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Where is Todd? We need a POLL on this.

Christian........................
Jewish...........................
Muslim..........................
Other...........................

Or something like this.Do you guys think we should add sexual orientation?

Personally I'm Greek Orthodox! and straight.