When will I try to convince Joe Farsetta to step down?

[Nick Gromicko]

Thanks John, I now agree with that line whole heartedly.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by gromicko

In the history of NACHI I have been asked (by an organized group within NACHI) twice to try to convince certain members to resign. In both cases I refused, as is my right to. This does not make a mockery of anything. I reserve my right to be me and will try to protect your right for you to be you.

Being neutral and unbiased is all anyone ever asked of you. It is my opinion that as NACHI members we all should support Mr Bowman as Executive Director and allow Mr. Farsetta the due process he is entitled to under our CoE.

[John Bowman]

Originally Posted by gromicko

In the history of NACHI I have been asked (by an organized group within NACHI) twice to try to convince certain members to resign. In both cases I refused, as is my right to. This does not make a mockery of anything. I reserve my right to be me and will try to protect your right for you to be you.

Who asked him to resign. Certainly not me. If he wants to resign that is his choice. But to remain in positions where absolutely no one will work with you (meaning Joe) makes absolutely no sense either. Especially in non-paid volunteer position.

This is no big deal. Joe can handle it. He has seen the process countless times and knows how it works.

[Nick Gromicko]

I understand your position John, which is why no one has asked to be your successor.

I just wanted to point out that Joe Farsetta has a tough position too.

I'm sure it will work out for the betterment of NACHI.

[John Bowman]

Originally Posted by gromicko

I understand your position John, which is why no one has asked to be your successor.

I just wanted to point out that Joe Farsetta has a tough position too.

I'm sure it will work out for the betterment of NACHI.

Always has and always will.

[Joe Farsetta]

Which is precisely why John's suspension of me is meaningless, and I will not step down. ESOP has always remained an independent body, and operates outside the control of everyone but the Board of Directors of NACHI. It was set up that way for a reason. As to this latest round of BS, all I can honestly say is that if I have been accused of anything, it is of being over protective of this organization.

As Chair of ESOP, I am not a voting member to begin with. As I am allegedly involved in something here (though I fail to understand what as no illegal actions had taken place), I'd like to know how the concerns of NACHI members brought to my attention, regarding the statements and behaviour of some who have been nameless up to this point, has risen to this point of lunacy. Voice recordings were but a single means of communicating to members of NACHI what went on.

I will recuse myself of the actions and decisions of the committee, but that is all. I do not recognize the suspension of a person who may have something to hide or who may have participated, or sat idly by while others spewed on.

ESOP remains as it is and was: an independent body. As to the Director of Professional Development title, Mr. Bowman has wanted me removed on at least one other occasion, when I refused to go along with plans which some were trying to either push through, or control.

I have always believed that the control belonged to the members of the individual state chapters. Those beliefs have not changed.

As such, I aint budging. I believe the first question of order was whether I was acting within the reasonable scope of any NACHI member who believed the COE was being violated, or if NACHI was being betrayed.

Let's start with that one. The current makeup of ESOP is brand new. They do not know me. Let them handle this. Then, let's see where this leads.

[Russell Spriggs]

Hhhmmm-
Looks like I've been called to the plate.
If I understand this correctly, Joe Farsetta (whom I have never met), has been dedicated to the continuing success of NACHI, has not been involved in any of this supposed taping, has not seen any copy of this mythical tape, has not heard any words on this elusive tape, nor has he read any copies of a yet to be discovered transcript.

Likewise, John Bowman (whom I have met) has been heavily involved in the continued success of NACHI, has been trusted by and entrusted with the continuance of this organization, has yet to be named as a part of (what?) in what may be a fabricated tape (or 2, or 6), and has acted as a complete gentleman (in my observation) throughout this entire process.

My vote, gentlemen, as a unenlightened member of the Ethics Committee, is that, as anyone in this nation is innocent until proven otherwise . . .

I'm tossing this out for lack of anything other than hearsay.

With that, I unsubscribe to this and related threads.

Russ

[Joe Farsetta]

What Russel has eluded to is that I have forwarded a complaint to members of the Ethics Committee for review and action/comment. It is really written as a complaint and counter complaint. I have taken the liberty to prepare this, as no complaint was forwarded to anyone. It's not anyone's fault. In the frenzy to hang me, someone forgot the rope.

I have included some excerpts of the various threads, including comments made by those on both sides of the issue, and have encouraged them to read through the subject threads. As previously stated, I have recused myself from committee voting on the matter.

[Joseph Burkeson, CMI]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Which is precisely why John's suspension of me is meaningless, and I will not step down. ESOP has always remained an independent body, and operates outside the control of everyone but the Board of Directors of NACHI. It was set up that way for a reason. As to this latest round of BS, all I can honestly say is that if I have been accused of anything, it is of being over protective of this organization.

As Chair of ESOP, I am not a voting member to begin with. As I am allegedly involved in something here (though I fail to understand what as no illegal actions had taken place), I'd like to know how the concerns of NACHI members brought to my attention, regarding the statements and behaviour of some who have been nameless up to this point, has risen to this point of lunacy. Voice recordings were but a single means of communicating to members of NACHI what went on.

I will recuse myself of the actions and decisions of the committee, but that is all. I do not recognize the suspension of a person who may have something to hide or who may have participated, or sat idly by while others spewed on.

ESOP remains as it is and was: an independent body. As to the Director of Professional Development title, Mr. Bowman has wanted me removed on at least one other occasion, when I refused to go along with plans which some were trying to either push through, or control.

I have always believed that the control belonged to the members of the individual state chapters. Those beliefs have not changed.

As such, I aint budging. I believe the first question of order was whether I was acting within the reasonable scope of any NACHI member who believed the COE was being violated, or if NACHI was being betrayed.

Let's start with that one. The current makeup of ESOP is brand new. They do not know me. Let them handle this. Then, let's see where this leads.

Nick,

The gauntlette has been thrown down, it appears an apparent overthrow of NACHI has now taken place, the democratic process (if there ever was one) has broken down, can we next expect assassinations? What is your advise to those members who become physically ill over the idea of being a puppet of Mr. Farsetta? A little guidance here would be helpful.

[Greg Bell]

Joe B

You should not speak about our next ED like that. We all know that he is going to be appointed by Nick.

[jmichalski]

I agree with Joe B.

We now have a membeer who refuses to recognize the authority of the ED, and instead places the "E"SOP committee at a more significant level than the ED and is operating outside the chain of command and feels that he can do so without recourse.

Nick, this is precisely what John meant in his post, and exactly what Joe B was referring to in the "crytpic" message he initially posted in this thread.

When members refuse to recognize authority outside of yours, they cannot help but be seen as undermining the leadership (if not the entire organizational structure).

As for Joe F. - if it is as Russ says (that you have nothing to do with the tapes and have not even seen a transcript of such) then no problem - drop the issue and move on.

You also seem to be hung up on the "legality" of surreptitiously recorded and transcribed tapes. I will remind you that you are, as chair of the ethics committee, to be beyond reproach and are held to a higher standard (i.e. "ethical" behavior, not behavior that skirts the boundary of leagl.)

[Nick Gromicko]

For those of you who might be swayed by other's ill-worded posts that try to make it look as if I am obstructing process by merely stating my opinion... I will say it again, another way:

I'll conceed that as Founder of NACHI and head of staff I probably possess a little extra unquantifiable power (a power I neither seek nor exploit). I am merely stating that I refuse to wield that power in this case (read the heading of this thread) as I have refused to in the past. Obviously (except to those who haven't had their morning coffee), if I was secretly obstructing anything I certainly wouldn't be posting here.

I will wield the power of my words on this messsage board, a right and a power we ALL possess in EQUAL quantity as members and free men (and women).

Don't like it? Move to Iran.

[jmichalski]

Maybe I worded mine poorly or inarticulately.

I think the issue is that Joe F. is directly challenging the authority of the ED to suspend him. No one is asking you to convince Joe F. to resign or step down as ESOP Chair (although that may also be worthy of consideration - but a whole different subject).

I think they are asking for a little support for the decision of the ED.

[Leonard E. Ungar]

OH! MY Word;
It seems to me that nobody can understand what Nick is saying.

I am not taking either SIDE 'NICK'

Just my opinion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jay Schwartz]

Len:

Why do post in VERY large red? If your looking for some attention, you got it but not in the way you intended. It is quite annoying. IMHO.